NAMBA P-LIMITED Motor List - Pro Boat Motors NO LONGER AVAILABLE

[RaceMechaniX]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]162775[/ATTACH]
Here's a picture of my Neu 1515 that fits the dimensions. See you at the races.

That is a very clever work around although you need to replace the bearing carrier with a non-metallic material to prevent the stray inductance heating. The magnetic field produced by the rotor and the field generated by the stator coils are too close to the metal. The rotating flux will heat the bearing carrier like an induction cooktop. Evan as small as that part is it will generate 50-60W worth of heat on each side. At the end of a race that part will be smoking hot.

[Steven Vaccaro]

With the updated rule for P-Ltd potentially going into effect (if it passes in D19 and/or elsewhere) there can be some interesting developments in powerplants whereas before, under the old list AND "as delivered" rule, winning took some precise setup and as Steven said, driving counts heavily.

Personally I have had the absolutely most memorable racing moments when my boat was pretty equal to the rest of the field and the battle was rail to rail or one close behind the other lurking for a passing opportunity (or having the lead boat get psyched out & bobble). Ask Mike (theShaugnessey) - we've had those prized moments. Having a "ringer" banzai- motored rig way out front by virture of its' clever rule-massaging and by its lonesome might be one way to get points and that's good too. I'd rather have someone by my side racing together. Just my 2c.

Tony, somewhere you mentioned to include "as delivered". Sure its something that cant be tech'd, but would make the honorable guys, stay that way.

[T.S.Davis]

We've been racing with a motor dim allowance of 37x62 since spring of 2017. We ran it at 2017 MCup, 2017 Spring NATS, 2017 CanAm, 6 MMEU 2017 club races. Then we proposed it to IMPBA. Then we received a recommendation form the FE director as the BOD still wasn't on board. Race it some more! Ran it at the 2018 Spring NATs, 2018 FE NATs, 2018 CanAm, 5 MMEU 2018 club races. Made for some pretty even racing. I believe some NAMBA clubs were running some form of a dim spec too. Puget Sound was if I remember correctly. MMEU is two seasons deep with it and Puget one season. Dims across two organizations. Clubs thousands of miles apart.

Is the assumption that MMEU and Puget are not very creative and therefore didn't push the envelope? We had guys machining motors to meet the dims. We had guys racing rewound motors. We had some custom made Neu motors to fit the dims. We had some Lehner motors. Hell, I used to water cool my wires on the AQ motors. Guess what wins? Not all that custom BS. For 2018, 5 of 6 classes for MMEU ran the spec. Those 5 classes were won by out of the box Proboat and Promarine motors.

Sorry guys, but all the hand wringing over what could/might/maybe/possibly/someday be done is holding us back. The existing motor list (that was submitted to NAMBA back in late 2008 or so) was an absolute farce. We were ignorant. Guys could have been modifying their motors all along and we never would have known. There were no means to prove a motor was legal......or wasn't. The rules weren't tech-able. "As manufactured". Okay. Who checked those bearings to ensure that they were the right set that the manufacturer sold them with? What if the manufacturer changed vendors for bearings? Would we know? The vendors don't disclose that kind of information. We could have had two AQ motors right out of the boxes with different gauge magnet wire. This happened. Was only one legal? Was the other rewound? Could we know? Did we have the spec on the magnet wire to check it against the "as manufactured" wire? Of course not.

Not yell'n at ya Tony. Honest. I like close racing too. It's wayyyyyy more fun. Just getting a little frustrated with the glass is half empty thinking. I can't get my head around it. The glass has been half broken for nearly a decade but few recognized why that was so. Now we're going to get hung up on on the "if's n' mights"? There is no perfect. "Perfect"................that aint happening. The list is basically dead. It was DOA but we had our heads in the sand. Yes me too.

Workable is what we need. A dimensional limitation is workable.

OMG my soap box just burst into flames.

[T.S.Davis]

Tony, somewhere you mentioned to include "as delivered". Sure its something that cant be tech'd, but would make the honorable guys, stay that way.

You can't do that because two motors side by side from the same manufacturer might not even have the same can on them. Enter TP 3630-1950 motors.

[raptor347]

That is a very clever work around although you need to replace the bearing carrier with a non-metallic material to prevent the stray inductance heating. The magnetic field produced by the rotor and the field generated by the stator coils are too close to the metal. The rotating flux will heat the bearing carrier like an induction cooktop. Evan as small as that part is it will generate 50-60W worth of heat on each side. At the end of a race that part will be smoking hot.

You could build a potting mold with bearing carriers built in. Cast the whole thing solid with a high temp epoxy and high fiber fill. Put threaded inserts in the mounting end. Run a bearing with a larger OD than the rotor on the mounting end and use the mounting plate for bearing retention. Talk about simple bearing replacement. It's actually pretty simple tooling.

[T.S.Davis]

Or......I could spend the time time it takes to tool up a motor for an extra mph...........and practice driving instead.

[Doby]

Anyone who spends the amount of time and feels the need to actually mod the guts of motors to the extent of some of the pictures and ideas tossed around....all in order to win a little piece of plastic really needs their head examined.

[T.S.Davis]

Where's the like button John?

[properchopper]

Or......I could spend the time time it takes to tool up a motor for an extra mph...........and practice driving instead.

Really now

stop mkn sns.jpg

[Steven Vaccaro]

All this hurts my head. All I want to do is have stress free fun in my spare time.

[HTVboats]

We've been racing with a motor dim allowance of 37x62 since spring of 2017. We ran it at 2017 MCup, 2017 Spring NATS, 2017 CanAm, 6 MMEU 2017 club races. Then we proposed it to IMPBA. Then we received a recommendation form the FE director as the BOD still wasn't on board. Race it some more! Ran it at the 2018 Spring NATs, 2018 FE NATs, 2018 CanAm, 5 MMEU 2018 club races. Made for some pretty even racing. I believe some NAMBA clubs were running some form of a dim spec too. Puget Sound was if I remember correctly. MMEU is two seasons deep with it and Puget one season. Dims across two organizations. Clubs thousands of miles apart.

Is the assumption that MMEU and Puget are not very creative and therefore didn't push the envelope? We had guys machining motors to meet the dims. We had guys racing rewound motors. We had some custom made Neu motors to fit the dims. We had some Lehner motors. Hell, I used to water cool my wires on the AQ motors. Guess what wins? Not all that custom BS. For 2018, 5 of 6 classes for MMEU ran the spec. Those 5 classes were won by out of the box Proboat and Promarine motors.

Sorry guys, but all the hand wringing over what could/might/maybe/possibly/someday be done is holding us back. The existing motor list (that was submitted to NAMBA back in late 2008 or so) was an absolute farce. We were ignorant. Guys could have been modifying their motors all along and we never would have known. There were no means to prove a motor was legal......or wasn't. The rules weren't tech-able. "As manufactured". Okay. Who checked those bearings to ensure that they were the right set that the manufacturer sold them with? What if the manufacturer changed vendors for bearings? Would we know? The vendors don't disclose that kind of information. We could have had two AQ motors right out of the boxes with different gauge magnet wire. This happened. Was only one legal? Was the other rewound? Could we know? Did we have the spec on the magnet wire to check it against the "as manufactured" wire? Of course not.

Not yell'n at ya Tony. Honest. I like close racing too. It's wayyyyyy more fun. Just getting a little frustrated with the glass is half empty thinking. I can't get my head around it. The glass has been half broken for nearly a decade but few recognized why that was so. Now we're going to get hung up on on the "if's n' mights"? There is no perfect. "Perfect"................that aint happening. The list is basically dead. It was DOA but we had our heads in the sand. Yes me too.

Workable is what we need. A dimensional limitation is workable.

OMG my soap box just burst into flames.

(Workable is what we need. A dimensional limitation is workable)

[Johnc]

I've been reading these post for the last few days,

And here's my input

This is all bullcrap of what's being posted (motors and size),

I planned on joining a local club (and imba) this spring. But with all this crap about motors has turned me off. Have a few friends that are feeling the same way. By joining I was hoping for friendship/learning with fellow boaters and have fun racing (where in the world was fun lost?) Why did you decide to race yourself? TO HAVE FUN WITH FELLOW BOATERS AND TO LEARN FROM THEM? Maybe so, Maybe not

By having a better motor or reconfiguring it to make it faster does it make you a better driver? I don't think so. Is it really worth it to win with a upgraded (nonconformational motor) for bragging rights? It's not like your going to win any money (maybe a $10 side bet) just bragging rights (it worth the time and money to redo a motor just to brag?) its supposed to "fun" fellow boaters.

What I read mostly is that people are just bragging about what they know about motors and how they can improve them (throughout the whole post) just to be able to have an edge.

Here's a proposal (not including club races): Clubs that are hosting FE races (nats, cups) supply the motors (racers pay up front for them) after races boater may keep motor. All motors not kept by boaters returned to manufacture for resale. Have one day to install motors and test. How long does it take to change a motor out and test?

Just my thoughts: cut me down, hate me for what I have posted or what ever I don't care. It is what read from all of you and it's my opion

[longballlumber]

Serious questions:

Is the primary goal to set a size that allows as many options as possible? News flash: more options mean more inferior motors, because everyone is running the same motors as they were years ago.

Is the goal to have the motor disposable and the weakest link in the power system? Let’s face it we have gone from 60amp controllers to 150-180’s being the norm. We have gone from 1p 30c setups to 2p 60c set ups

Again, still I am trying to understand what the goals of the class are.

[raptor347]

Anyone who spends the amount of time and feels the need to actually mod the guts of motors to the extent of some of the pictures and ideas tossed around....all in order to win a little piece of plastic really needs their head examined.

Doby,
With all due respect, I disagree with you on this. Are the people who built those motors any crazier that those who spend countless hours bitching on the interwebs? At least they had something to show for their time.

Those motors are taken a bit out of context. The pics and mod ideas come from folks who play at the world championship level. I got to fondle the prototypes when I was at the 1998 F5D worlds. We were running custom wound Aveox motors at the time. Generally speaking, the participants have the operator side of the game pretty well in hand before the equipment tinkering begins. Ultimately it was still a piece of plastic, but I've held on to that piece of plastic for 20 years.

It's funny how mind set has changed in 20 years. Back then, the guys who built those motors were highly regarded innovators, today they're crazy (also very well paid engineers).

There are some people that enjoy the process of building to and innovating within a rule set. I don't consider building a motor to meet dimensional rule specs any different than designing a new boat to fall within the rules. It's not the blue plates or ribbons, the attraction is the mental exercise of building the better mouse trap. It's fun and challenging to build!

One of the issues here is our mixed bag of racers with widely varying skills and preferred level of competition. Some want to go play without much effort, others analyze everything and experiment. Some should focus on driving skills, others can afford and enjoy the R&D mental gymnastics. Unfortunately, they are all in the same heat this weekend.

Personally, as P-ltd has taken over the hobby, I've found myself heat racing less and putting more effort into time trials. People playing in that arena don't interpret innovation as seeking unfair advantage.

[raptor347]

Johnc,
Go find a club, do some racing and make some friends.

Ignore the interweb garbage. The worst internet enemies hug and go racing once the ponds thaw out.