NAMBA P-LIMITED Motor List - Pro Boat Motors NO LONGER AVAILABLE

[raptor347]

My take:
The dimensional limits will work fine. There will be cases of innovation, those folks don't deserve to be beaten up over it. If someone shows up with something creative that really works, pat them on the back and see if you can spend some time in their shop!

[Doug Smock]

...………..

[RaceMechaniX]

You could build a potting mold with bearing carriers built in. Cast the whole thing solid with a high temp epoxy and high fiber fill. Put threaded inserts in the mounting end. Run a bearing with a larger OD than the rotor on the mounting end and use the mounting plate for bearing retention. Talk about simple bearing replacement. It's actually pretty simple tooling.

Do you know a guy who might have some high temp epoxy, small lathe to turn molds and patience to perfect a small run of killer motors?
Since we are on the topic can the same guy pot the stator so the inner and outer diameter is sealed with passages between the stator teeth so I can run water directly over the windings?
I think I can double the current..........

I should go practice making some laps now.

[Doug Smock]

Lap times are overrated.
You just need to be able to drive a straight line and enter and exit the turns in lane one.

[Doby]

Doby,
With all due respect, I disagree with you on this. Are the people who built those motors any crazier that those who spend countless hours bitching on the interwebs? At least they had something to show for their time.

Those motors are taken a bit out of context. The pics and mod ideas come from folks who play at the world championship level. I got to fondle the prototypes when I was at the 1998 F5D worlds. We were running custom wound Aveox motors at the time. Generally speaking, the participants have the operator side of the game pretty well in hand before the equipment tinkering begins. Ultimately it was still a piece of plastic, but I've held on to that piece of plastic for 20 years.

It's funny how mind set has changed in 20 years. Back then, the guys who built those motors were highly regarded innovators, today they're crazy (also very well paid engineers).

There are some people that enjoy the process of building to and innovating within a rule set. I don't consider building a motor to meet dimensional rule specs any different than designing a new boat to fall within the rules. It's not the blue plates or ribbons, the attraction is the mental exercise of building the better mouse trap. It's fun and challenging to build!

One of the issues here is our mixed bag of racers with widely varying skills and preferred level of competition. Some want to go play without much effort, others analyze everything and experiment. Some should focus on driving skills, others can afford and enjoy the R&D mental gymnastics. Unfortunately, they are all in the same heat this weekend.

Personally, as P-ltd has taken over the hobby, I've found myself heat racing less and putting more effort into time trials. People playing in that arena don't interpret innovation as seeking unfair advantage.

Hi Brian:

Fair enough..if they want to spend the time to do all that , great. But I would think that its an overall very small percentage of racers that would be attempting that in the "P Limited" / "M spec" / "Dimensionaly weight restricted motor" class (whatever terminology is politically correct these days). Most would just run a COTS motor that fits the rules /proposals being run at any given event.

Lets face it..a boat with super duper motor in the wrong hands is just going to wind up bottoms up sooner and be just another speed bump on the course.

Now, that setup in the right hands is a different matter...thankfully there aren't that many out there with the right hands. most of us have two left ones!

[ray schrauwen]

Whatcha building this winter guys?

[raptor347]

Doby,
I completely agree with the super motor in the wrong hands deal.

The other thing about those motors, they were optimized for a different variable. Dimensions, within reason, weren't part of the equation. They were shooting for max power for minimum weight, total flying weight being one of the main variables in the airframe design. Minimizing the non-active component weight was the driver. Again, very capable, high level competitors.

I don't expect to regularly see that level of refinement in P-ltd. I also won't be surprised if they occasionally show up.

Tyler,
Yes, as a matter of fact I do.
No cooling jacket required, or you could directly cool the stack and windings. Rotor OD tolerance will be more critical. Need to fill some of the air gap with thin wall carbon tube. Do you think there will be enough flow between the windings?

Ray,
New outriggers and a new mono. Not to mention the new race car, but that's a 1.5 year project.

[T.S.Davis]

The goal is to have some classes where both vets and the less experienced can coexist with less percieved advantage. This IS why the classes with imitations have been the most heavily populated FE classes since 2003. Some of you wont remember LSH and LSO with glorified drill motors. "Limited" replaced those.

John, our club spec classes were won with motors bought from Larry's RC right out of the display case. All 5 of those classes were won by 3 racers. Those 3 guys are at the pond at least once per week to practice driving. No black magic motors.

To Brians point. Time........ Those three guys invested time to be better. If someone spent that same time building a better mouse trap........still a time investment to be faster. Crazy to spend time learning to go faster? Or crazy to do it different than I did? I like to build wood boats. Takes twice the time of assembling a glass boat. Crazy investment of time? Probably but I enjoy doing it.

Here's what's different about model boaters. Something rules dont and wont ever cover. Those 3 guys that won our classes will take the prop off their winning boat and let you try it on yours. If they have a spare motor they'll let you try that out too. That commeraderie is lost in this hand wringing nonsense here. Smock and I dont agree on "spec" but at a race........dont care. "Hey Doug, i lost my 1814-17-45" He's helping me out. I would do the same for him.

Goals? A midpoint between standing on shore and the psychotic open classes where NO limits allow us to go crazy.

[Doug Smock]

Smock and I dont agree on "spec" but at a race........dont care. "Hey Doug, i lost my 1814-17-45" He's helping me out. I would do the same for him.

Got to love it!!

We've never agreed on "LIMITED". Remember the ESC debates? Still not convinced I was wrong!

Let's race!!

[dethow]

Again, still I am trying to understand what the goals of the class are.

Mike,
After this MANY years of discussion, debate and this exact same statement/question from you over and over... and OVER again. Maybe it's time we ALL move past you trying to understand the goals of the class and let's get some rules in place which are "workable".

At this point the goals should be to provide an environment with defined rules so that veterans and beginners alike know what to put in their boats in order to be involved in organized racing without a concern over what the rules might be next year.

It's just time to move past this question Mike. It's clearly NEVER going to be answered to your liking.

Everyone gets so mad at me when all I want are rules in place so THIS stuff can stop. It's these type of open questions with no answer ever satisfying you that contributes to this topic never being resolved. Again....

[Doug Smock]

Mike, did what's his name ever submit a proposal? Didn't think so...…. Nah, it's easier to sit on the sidelines and .

[dethow]

Mike, did what's his name ever submit a proposal? Didn't think so...…. Nah, it's easier to sit on the sidelines and .

Doug, am I to assume "what's his name" is me?

Why would anyone waste their time submitting a proposal to IMPBA when the FE director (Mike) and BODs as a whole have made it clear that no limited/spec proposals would be considered and move past the BODs for membership vote?

If that has changed please let us all know so that someone can get a proposal submitted. But based on Mike's continued "trying to understand" the goals of the class questions... I'm assuming nothing has changed as of yet.

And besides Doug... as I'm understanding it you really don't like limited/spec and thus it would appear that any involvement from you on this matter is nothing more then a damping effect to bring questions and shade on the topic so that we can never get to a proposal.

It's all starting to make sense to me know... after 9 months. This is why you sent me those PMs dogging Terry and Darin and requesting that I get behind the new FE director (Mike). Terry and Darin were on the side of figuring out a "workable" rule set, while you clearly and Mike is now become more apparent to just keep throwing up questions and road blocks which never allow the opening for a proposal.

Afterall... how is the IMPBA FE Director ever going to give his approval on ANY proposal if he can't even figure out the goals of the class?

And I'm not bringing up old stuff here moderators.... this is current and based on recent statement/questions from Mike along with this statement from Doug regarding proposals. I haven't referenced prior racing events and I haven't called anyone names so please don't threaten another "time-out" on me for asking legitimate questions on the matter.

[Doug Smock]

So after all your ranting to the BOD you STILL don't know how it works? Back on the list..

[ray schrauwen]

Doby,
I completely agree with the super motor in the wrong hands deal.

The other thing about those motors, they were optimized for a different variable. Dimensions, within reason, weren't part of the equation. They were shooting for max power for minimum weight, total flying weight being one of the main variables in the airframe design. Minimizing the non-active component weight was the driver. Again, very capable, high level competitors.

I don't expect to regularly see that level of refinement in P-ltd. I also won't be surprised if they occasionally show up.

Tyler,
Yes, as a matter of fact I do.
No cooling jacket required, or you could directly cool the stack and windings. Rotor OD tolerance will be more critical. Need to fill some of the air gap with thin wall carbon tube. Do you think there will be enough flow between the windings?

Ray,
New outriggers and a new mono. Not to mention the new race car, but that's a 1.5 year project.

Cool Brian.

I remember back in 2014 or someone ran a spec Skunkworks cat with the motor in the bottom, always exposed to water or air.

Very "cool" idea !

[T.S.Davis]

I know its not like me to agree with Dave but it's only fair. Sometimes its like he's reading my mind. I'll come back to it.

First some history........sorry.

Back about 2003 Limited Sport Hydro was added to the NAMBA rule book. It was in response to what the racers were already doing. Brushed 700 motors. Instant success. That was followed by Limited Sport Offshore. These limited type classes were at that time to most popular classes. By a lot. Held up for about 5 years.

Enter cheap brushless motors. Guys started taking the motor from the SV27 and dropping them in their LSH boats. You could get that motor for about the same $$ as a 700 motor. So...........NAMBA responded. Success again. Whether you loved it, hated it, didn't believe in it...........doesn't matter. It provided just enough freedom to allow some imagination without the insane speed discrepancies of open classes. As pathetic, ill conceived, terrible (insert your favorite spec hate phrase).......they were still the most popular class set ever. For FE that is.

Reality is, no matter how you feel about it, that some rendition of a spec class set has been to most popular FE classes for the tiny population of FE racers since the battery.

Back to Dave's point. Might be from another thread and just occured to me that he's right.

The goal.

IMPBA's goal needs to be responding to it's membership. The FE community has been racing some form of spec for 15 years. The BOD is elected to represent the membership and it's desires.

If the BOD is simply trying to avoid the whining of some just tell them it's my fault. It probably is anyway.