Brushless motor winding class

[ray schrauwen]

Ok, thanks. I’ll go with that.

I better get straight with props or I’ll burn something up.

[ray schrauwen]

Ray- I think I said a 1815 on the 2000. for the cat. and a 1915 for the 1500

Larry

You probably did Larry. I'm going to sell or send the one 1817 raw to Chris and see if he can send me a B&S 1815.

You still think I can turn the B&S 1817 have on a 1521 1.5D (or 2000Kv SSS4082?) in a mono or on my ML 310 Rigger on a 2200Kv motor?

[TRUCKPULL]

I would say try it in the rigger.

Larry

[ray schrauwen]

Thanks Larry!

[T.S.Davis]

Did a 2D last night just to hone my skills. It was tougher than the 3D imo. That's a thick bundle to work with. Still hating that wire stripping action.

I'll check the kv later tonight. Still just trying to learn. Need to try a wye.

[donhuff]

Yes, a 2 wind is hard because the bundles are so big and your needle is huge. But the flip side is that an 8 wind is hard because the bundle is so long! A 3 or 4 wind seems to be the sweet spot for easiest to wind, for me. I agree, that the wire stripping ain't the most fun thing I have ever done.

Just for a rough idea of what the kv will be, use this "formula?"

Since you are reducing the length of the wire by 30%, then increase the kv by 30%. It usually goes up more than 30, but that gets you in the ball park.

So on a 2000 dyna (I assume that's what your using) 2000 plus 30% equals 2600. I think the one I did for you was more like 2900.


When you start to do that wye, ask a bunch of questions. You know what they say about dumb questions! The Y is so much different in how it starts, that it can be confusing at first.

And remember, you can do a "test" wind, and not use a full bundle of wire. That makes it a lot easier to thread and get the pattern in your head, without to much trouble.

[T.S.Davis]

I'll be reviewing this whole thread before I tackle the wye wind.

Believe it or not this is useful in at my day job too. Fire pumps are brushless too. 150hp and 460 volt some of them but still just big brushless motors. We obviously don't do that part ourselves bu the more I understand how it's done the further ahead I am I think. Ever hear the term wye delta closed? They sometimes use it to reduce start up amperage.

[T.S.Davis]

The whole length of the wire thing makes sense to me but it then makes me wonder how these manufacturers come up with all the very specific kv's. TP and Neu both will wind a 40mm motor to get pretty close to a kv you ask for. Like a 4070 come 2200 standard I believe. Somewhere around there. But if yer hell bent on a 2400kv for example....they will custom wind it for you. Wonder how the heck they do that.

I'm full of questions suddenly Don. Sorry man.

I know what a 3D is. I know what a 2D is. What would a 2.5D look like? I feel like that drops a lead in a weird place.

[jaike5]

Interesting on the 2.5 question , when and where do you drop it or is one lead shorter than the other two.

[donhuff]

A lot of the motors we use in everyday life, on ac current ARE brushless. There are still a good many applications where a brushed motor is used, but the majority of them are brushless.

But you'll be hard pressed to find many with permanent magnets in them. A big portion of them are "induction" motors. (Google it, weird how that works).

Yes I have heard and had first hand knowledge of the y-d "soft start" system. I use to own a small Asphalt plant and the biggest motor that was there was a 480 volt 125hp one on a 7' diameter fan to try and control the dust and feed air to the maxon diesel 8,000,000 btu burner.

That starter box was 4 feet tall and 2.5 feet wide and had a 2' long handle that I had to push down to start, wait for the rpm to build and level off, then I had to yank it up fast and hard to lock it in place in the run position. Scared the SHIP out of me every time I did it, and I must have done it 10,000 times over the 10 years I was there. Scared me because I had seen some of the other smaller starters blow off the wall before! It had silver contacts in it about 1 1/2" square and I hated to have to get them replaced$$$$$.

The dumb ass f-er that trained me when I first went there would put it in start just long enough to get it turning, then yank it to run. It would spin and smoke the 8- 1 1/4" wide v belts instantly. Three or for times doing that and the belts were shot.

[donhuff]

The whole length of the wire thing makes sense to me but it then makes me wonder how these manufacturers come up with all the very specific kv's. TP and Neu both will wind a 40mm motor to get pretty close to a kv you ask for. Like a 4070 come 2200 standard I believe. Somewhere around there. But if yer hell bent on a 2400kv for example....they will custom wind it for you. Wonder how the heck they do that.

I'm full of questions suddenly Don. Sorry man.

I know what a 3D is. I know what a 2D is. What would a 2.5D look like? I feel like that drops a lead in a weird place.

Like we have talked about before, to get some of the half winds, they will have more turns in one set of coils that the do in the other for a 4 pole 12 slot, for a 6 pole 18 slot they may leave one turn off of one set of coils or maybe on two sets. Buy doing that they can get closer to a specific kv. But to me, and with boats in particular, I would accept a kv that I didn't really want, to get a more, full of wire, stator. We can easily change our propellers (within reason of course) to get the speed about the same regardless of the kv.

If you have a Leopard motor with a half wind in it. Take the ends off and you can easily see that one set of coils are a lot more full than the other set. I posted a picture somewhere of one of my leopards showing this. (remember a 4 pole has 12 slots, 3 coils per leg, 2 sets of coils, so 6 coils total.) And a 6 pole with 18 slots has one more set of coils, for a total of 9.

found that picture. See all the empty space in the slots at 12 oclock, and the bottom half is a lot fuller. https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com...pard+half+wind

keep the questions coming Terry, that shows me that I didn't do all this for nothing.

[donhuff]

Interesting on the 2.5 question , when and where do you drop it or is one lead shorter than the other two.

Jay,

The leads are all the same length for the three legs. They just go around one set of coils twice, and the other set once. 5.5 turns would be 5 turns on one set and 4 on the other. At least that the best that I can figure it out from dissecting a few motors. BUT like on an 1800 AQ motor. The Y connection is in the front of the motor instead of the rear. That means that some of the wire bundle goes through one slot on one side of a coil twice, but only once on the other side of that same coil. Draw a picture of it entering from the bottom, around twice, and then out the top. See there are 3 passes on one side of the coil and only two on the other side. Almost all of the small spec car racing motors are wound that way. Because of the way they are made, this works out good for them.

Terry we talked about leaving a turn off once before. I tried it but forgot to report about it. I "test" wound a dyna 2000 at 4D and checked the kv, then took one turn off of the last set of coils. Thats easy to do with the cat5 wire. Then retested the kv and it was 150 rpm faster! I should have took a coil off of a second set of coils to see if it upped another 150, but I thought of that to late.

[donhuff]

And don't forget about the DDD and YYY winds. DDD or YYY means that you are wiring EACH COIL INDIVIDUALLY, and not using one wire to wind all three coils on a leg/phase. By using them, let's say going from a 3D @ 2000kv to a 4D @ say 1500kv you can split that kv spread some. This is for a 6 pole 18 slot. For a 4 pole 12 slot it would be 3DD or YY because they have 2 coils per phase. A 12 pole 18 slot wired concentrated with 6 coils per phase, could be a 3 D or a or an 18 DDDDDD and have the same kv.

With a 6 pole 18 slot 3D you have 3 sets of coils per leg, so thats 3 coils wound with the same wire. And lets say that wire is 4' long. By going DDD and winding each coil separately, and staying at 2000kv, you still have to use that 4' long piece of wire PER COIL but now you have to wind it 9 turns! ( 3x3=9 turns or 1x9=9 turns either way the wire is the same length.

Same thing when we go to 4D except for the longer wire by 1.33' so 5.33' long wire. But notice that with the 4 turns, now we have 3 coils per leg, times 4 turns and that equals 12 turns total for the leg. So 9 turns for the 3D and 12 for the 4D per leg. If we wind each coil individually, we can now also do a 10DDD and an 11DDD and split the 500 kv difference between 3D 2000 and 4D 1500, two times for around 1666kv and 1832kv. Simple EH???

[T.S.Davis]

Alright blood just shot out of one of me ears? Is that normal?

[jaike5]

It is if you jammed a pencil in there over confusion , other wise no! Now I Know why I'm a double D man !! DDD DDDDD way outta my wheel house !!