Brushless motor winding class

[donhuff]

At this point lets stop.

Terry, you said that your trying to figure out the wind, and wanting to make up your bundle. DON"T not yet anyway.

FIRST, I'll TRY to explain that wind later, but for now let's learn one that is a little more simple and will accomplish the same thing, And what I mean by that is That the DYNM3831 2000 has a 3 delta wind the way I look at it, but it goes about the wind in a different manner than a regular 3 delta. And the "regular" one is a lot more simple to see and understand. I have wound the same motor both ways, and they both turn out with the same kv, so I don't quite see the point of the odd way of doing it other than it spreads the wire out a little more.

SECOND, For your first attempts at winding. Lets use just one, or maybe 4-5 strands of wire. OR Like I suggested earlier. Get some cat 5 cable, telephone wire, or some sort of cable with a bunch of strands in it of different colored insulated wires. These make it way easier to see what your doing and if you get a leg out of place. Of course you should use different colors for the three legs. And at the end, you can actually run the motor on a single strand of the cat5 24AWG wire. Don't put a load on it though as it wont take much to over heat it.

And for me to explain the winds, your going to have to use some imagination, To understand my drawings. If I just show pics of the process while threading a real stator, they will all look about the same after just a few passes through the slots. It's gonna be a long slow process as I'll have to draw, take picture, post pics and write comments.

[donhuff]

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Here we have a simple 3 turn coil. Connect a battery to these two wires, positive on one and negative to the other. Put a piece of steel rod through the middle of it and it will be a magnet with a north pole on one end and a south pole on the other end.

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Here, we have just the wire of one leg of a 18 slot stator winding. You can see at the far left at #1S (s for start), that the wire goes down, then loops around three times to make a coil. Then it moves over to your right, and makes another 3 turn coil. Then to the right again and makes another 3 turns and then straight up to terminate at #1F--- f, for finish.

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Now, it starts to get a little congested when we add the second set of three coils. This second leg starts in the slot right beside the other one (on a delta, not so on a wye). But this set of coils is exactly like the first set only moved over one slot. Hopefully you can see the colors good enough. This is my third drawing so it aint gonna get no better!

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JEEZZZZ with the third set of coils added, it gets really hard to tell what's going on. But when doing the actual winding, you'll have only one set of holes left to fill, and if you did right with the first two legs, those hole will all be in the right position.

But this one is the same exact as the other two, just moved over two slots from where we started with leg 1.

See how all the coils are wound CCW? That's why were learning this wind first because it the simplest one out there. Some winds, like the one in the DYNM3831 will have you do a couple turns CCW then one CW that comes back to make the third pass in the first coil and on to the second pass in the second coil. And then back CCW starting the third coil back to get the third pass on the second coil, and then CW again.....etc etc all the way around. So you actually end up with six coils per leg! 18 coils total. See now why ya don't want to start with that one????
I post a picture of one leg wound that way in a little just to show you how confusing it can get. But once you get it in your head what's actually going on and why, It's nor that much harder to do than any of the others.

[donhuff]

DSC_0006.jpg

Now were getting to the part where you will have to use some imagination.

You know what the stator looks like from the previous pictures right. So lets imagine that it's made out of a soft rubber and that we cut it into lengthwise on one side only, from one end to the other. Then bend it open and laid it flat on the bench, like you could do an orange for example . Now you have a long rectangle block about a half inch thick with 18 little slits (the SLOTS) cut in the top half of it. Were again pretending that the top half (depth wise) has been milled off so that we can see the actual slots where the wire will be laying in them.

[donhuff]

sorry about the 17 slots above I wasn't counting right and I added it after that pic.


DSC_0007.jpg

Here we have leg one all wired up. See how it enters the first on the left slot at 1S, (S for start F for finish) and then STS (remember that stands for, skip two slots). Makes a CCW coil, and then moves over two slots (STS again). And makes the second coil, STS and make the third coil and out to 1F.

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Add leg #2

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And leg #3. Now we gots a mess don't we.

I'll draw out that DYNM3831 wind now so you can see which one you'd rather learn first.

[donhuff]

DSC_0010.jpg

See how there looks to be a lot more going on with this one. Also note how at the far right how the line goes off page to catch the slot where the run started at. Also note that I put the #2 blue wire in the #1s slot, and forgot to put the red #3 wire on it altogether. I'll do it better when (if) anyone gets to where they actually want to do this one.

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There are times when a wind will require a CW coil on one tooth and the next leg will need a CW coil, then the third leg will need a CCW wound coil, then one CW and the next two will be CCW. There are all kinds of combos, but mostly our motors all use the simpler all the same type of pattern. And usually the mixed up type coils are on CONCENTRATED winds and not the DISTRIBUTED type like we (normally) use.

[ray schrauwen]

Thank you Don, lots of reading.

Were you successful on your first rewind attempt?

[donhuff]

Your welcome Ray,

If I remember right, my first one did run ok. But at first, I was just trying to duplicate exactly what was inside of an Aquacraft motor. I used the same diameter wire and same number of strands. 30 strands of 31 awg wire on the "good" ones, 21 strands on the easy to burn up ones!!!.

This leaves a lot of room in the slots and makes for easy winding. Later I went up in wire size to 27ag and down in strands to 25-27 strands. But this still makes for around 50 to 70% increase in copper.

But by the time that I did the first one that I actually put power to. I had dissected about a dozen learning the weave of the wire. And the (light bulb over the head)had turned on and I had a pretty good grasp of what was actually going on. In my elementary school years, I had made a simple motor using a horseshoe magnet for the stator, a bolt with the head cut off, and a hole crosswise at the middle with a wooden dowel for the shaft, to make the rotor. Steel strips from the barn roof to make the commutator. More tin strips for the brushes. And wire that I got out of an old transformer. Wound wire around the bolt, CW on one side and CCW on the other to make the necessary north and south poles for the rotor. Soldered it all up and looked at it running in disbelief that something so simple would actually run.

So I sorta understood the commutation principles and how it makes a rotating magnetic field within the rotor. Then around age 14-15 I got into slot cars and rewound a few of them. Then about 50 years later, I did my first brushless motor.

But For that first AQ motor I still did not wind once and add power. I wound several "test" stators trying to get a feel for it, until I thought that I had it about right and confident that it would work right.

[donhuff]

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Get some of this colorful cat5 wire to make learning easier PLEASE!

Pull back on the white one and strip it away from the orange one. Don't sit there and unwind the whole damn thing TERRY!

It takes about four feet for a 3 delta like I'm doing here. Stick in a slot, any slot, for this one time only and pull it through almost all the way! Leave about 4 to 6 inches sticking out the top. Then out the bottom STS and back in and up out the top, go back to the first start hole and stick it back in. Making a COIL here you see. Out the bottom STS back in and up out the top. Back to the start and in for the last TURN on this coil. IN, down, out STS and back in and up and out the top side to finish out this first coil.

That's pic three. Left side of the wire is where we started and the right side is the finish, and goes on to the next coil in line.

Pic 4 shows the second coil, on this leg, already finished. It's done exactly like the first one so no need to repeat myself. See the single strand STS and go in for the start. Around three times and out.

Pic 5. Wind the third coil in the same manner. STS in, down out, STS back in and up, out the top back to the start of this coil and around two more times. Then out and cut it off same length as the start wire. See also that there is two empty slots to the right of where we ended. Thats where the next two legs will start.

[TRUCKPULL]

Don - I remember a few years back we were talking about different motors and their Stators.
Some Motors came with two types of Stators, One type can be rewound the other can Not.


Larry

[donhuff]

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Now take your next color of wire, I used blue this time. And go into the slot to the left of the START of the orange wire.

If ya aint got if figured out by now, then go back to the post just above this one and follow the instructions to wire the Second legs set of three coils, just like ya did the first legs coils.

Hold it up to the picture if you need to and see that all your colors and strand counts are in the right order.

Pic 3 we start the third set of coils and I'm using green wire. Same thing here as before, it just looks more complicated because it's getting very crowded. Now imagine what it would look like if using all the same colored wire and 20 strands of that wire per leg.


You notice that I said 20 strands that last time. The factory AQ motor is a 2 turn wind with 30 strands per bundle, that puts 60 strands in each slot. But for our rewind above, I used 3 turns. So if the slots will hold only 60 strands on a 2 turn. Then for our 3 turn we have to take the 60 strand total and divide by the number of turns which is three. That gives us 20 strands per turn.

So in theory how many strands would we have to use for a 10 turn AQ motor? 6 right

[donhuff]

I remember a little about that Larry.

Most of the type like we usually run look like the one in my picture for the most part. Now a 4 pole motor will have only 12 slots in it and will look different because of that. But shape and such they look the same.

Some motors like the Lehner are two pole and "slotless" meaning that there is not a stator in them at all. The coils are made up and pressed into shape and set in a resin like epoxy. And either before the epoxy or after i'm not sure, the coils are pressed into a laminated steel cylinder, and this forms the "back iron" like the thick steel on the outside of the wire on the stator inside our motors.

And I saw inside of a plettenberg once, and while it did have a normal looking stator. The windings were also set in epoxy and it would be a job to get all that off to be able to rewind it.

[donhuff]

DSC_0010.jpg

Here we have a the stator all coiled up and ready to TERMINATE the ends of all the coils. Another reason I like this wind is it is easy to terminate as any two wires that are side by side, go together.

Start 1 goes with S2.............S3 goes with Finish 1............F2 goes with F3

DSC_0011.jpg

[donhuff]

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It should look like this

[TRUCKPULL]

Pictures on post #25 and #27 do not work

Larry

[donhuff]

Thanks Larry i think I got it now.