P-Limited Motors - Im going to jump on the hot seat.

[Doby]

So does anyone really care to argue with the reasoning Darin has listed? It sounds just about a simple as it can get, excludes no manufactures and gives everyone options to tune their boats with.

Its about as common sense as it can be without overly complicating things.

Well stated Darin.

[Darin Jordan]

I'm sorry, I forgot one more thing:


Proposed P-Limited Motor Specs:

MAX Motor Dimensions: 36mm Diameter x 60mm Length without water jacket
Maximum Weight: 260 Grams without water jacket (Include contacts??)
Poles: 4 or 6 poles allowed
Max KV: 2050
SENSORLESS, FIXED Timing motors only. No Sensored motors allowed.

I would NOT allow sensored motors or adjustable end-bell timing. Both, easily verified.

[raptor347]

I'm in, who wants to write the proposal?

[T.S.Davis]

We did this with N2 Sport at the club level. 2 pole, max kV, max can size. It worked. Sort of. Until some of us found Lehner motors that fit the spec. Tough to compete with a Lehner when youre running a $50 Fiegao. We just got tired of high amp boats that were hard to finish with.

I would love to know how this "intimidation" thing works and who the "NAMBA brass" is. Is that Robert Holland or maybe Fred? He's the only FE guy I know that sits on the BOD.

[T.S.Davis]

Neither organization is built to make rules by commity. How would you choose the panel of experts? Appointment? Election? Straws?

I'll think on Darin's idea. Does it need an MSRP limit as well?

I do dread the thought of KV checking a 100 or more entries at a race.

[raptor347]

I just like the fact that it silences the poor quality complaints and removes any manufacturer ties. Those are the two common complaints that have been the load stones of this debate.

The RTR manufacturers are beginning to install motors that fall outside the existing rules, so they may not be in the picture for long anyway.

Run what ever level of quality you want as long as it fits the specs. Motors can come in and out of production and it won't matter, move on to the next motor that's within spec. No seasonal debates, no changing part numbers, no board of motor experts.

[raptor347]

Put a $150 cap on them. That keeps the Lehners, Neus, Hackers, Kontroniks, Megas etc. out of the mix but allows just about any asian alternative you'd care to run.

[rayzerdesigns]

its funny that everyone has a different opinion on this subject.i do think there are variables to just havng a can size limit..though I do agree with being sensorless only...again its going to come down to the fact we are going to push the limits on any approved motor..dougs variable included..obviously there is a concern..but what happens when this comes up again because we are burning up those motors..some are going to be better than others..i don't agree at all with a spec prop..that wont work on every hull..and different limited classes..i agree with tyler on the fact that it can be limited through a amp draw,,say 75 amp..but that also has its drawbacks..i have been doing a lot of testing this year..and have stepped away from the 2030s..not that I didn't like them..but I have exclusively gone the way of the dynamite 1500s..and those that have seen my boats wont think they are slow..i have on average picked up 2 to 5 mph over my 2030 setups..and at nats this year had 2 boats thar came in repeatably over 150 degrees..no burnt wires or anything..but enough of that rant..i don't agree with a 150 dollar or even a 100 dollar price..we all need to maybe sit down and figure it out..and again..it will never change unless it is submitted and voted on..i myself have no problem with the current selection of approved motors..and yes..i have tested dougs tp suggestion..all of the bickering is killing and dividing us..lets remember these are a hobby and we are racing for fun and or trophies..except maybe the few who might make money doing this..that being said..hope to see you all at a pond someday..lets race

[rayzerdesigns]

oh..and the kv limit..would that be rated..or tested..we all know the aq 2030 is no where near a 2030..ive never tested one over 1965..

[Jeff]

In my opinion the KV needs to be lower. That is one of the reasons I think Darin could have helped testing the TP motor. The aquacrat motor is a lot lower then the 2030 it claims. The TP appears to be close to what is stated. The boats are on the edge now because of length limits. If you add another 1,000 rpm you will only separate the ready to run and new people even further. As it is now getting nitro cross overs is difficult because of the speed now. Doug got his p spec combined with nitro 40 to make a class run and he lapped them on a long course, they were not scrub racers either.

[T.S.Davis]

KV tech on site. Ughhhhhhhhh.

Adding to Jeff's point......motors are rated different by each maker. Lehener rates under load. So when your looking for a motor to fit you have to make sure. Joe new guy will show up with some random, get it wrong, now he's pissed and the rule mongers are the problem.

Pretty sure Darin picked 2050 so that the 2030 could stay legal forever but if you checked it to fit for instance a 2k rating it would still be legal.

I'm not running any 2030 motors anymore either. All 1800's with bigger blades in the drink.

Ray, are you thinking lower $ threshold?

[DPeterson]

It has been reported that the actual KV of the 2030 is between 1925 and 1965. The engineer at TP told me the 3630 1950 actual KV is 1950 +/- .25. Now you want to include motors with manufacturer "printed" KV specs of 2050. Good golly.

All you guy's thought the TP motor would upset the apple cart. Didn't happen. Won't happen. More Clubs are seeing the value.

Allowing a higher "actual KV" is a guaranteed train wreck. Have at it.

[zooma]

How are you guys measuring actual kv? For example, I have used the "drill press" method to measure AC current and plug into a formula. I often get close to the manufacturer's rating, but not on the mark. I also have a Hobby King RPM/KV meter, but it is wildly inaccurate, off by hundreds, even when set for the correct number of poles.

So, what kind of method and equipment would produce accurate results?

BTW - The drill press method showed my AQ 2030 at 1979kv.

[Doby]

People arguing about a few KV here and there...who cares....pretty sure Darin just picked the 2050 max as a suggestion for a good place to start for a max kv rating. People want to run a max KV allowable motor...go for it...better make sure your boat is set up and tuned for it ...if not ..boom...but again, if someone fries motors its a good way for them to learn that maybe higher kv doesn't always win races...I like the 1800 AQ motors (for now) in my cats and monos.. Beat a lot of 2030 motors at the Cup this year....just saying...just bragging...

Peterson...you should be happy, this thread actually shows promise of spec motors expanding to allow more selection...something you wanted all along...

Don't worry...be happy

[Doby]

I also have a bit of a chuckle about the KV testers.....has anybody calibrated one of these to actually see if they are accurate??