Whos making these wire drive coupling systems?

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Hubert , Tyler,
yes Tyler is right. The step by step of the JAGs team rigger is the best way and if J?rg would run on 10S he will hit 250-300 mph. But you have always some limitations . How long is the distance to accelerate the boat and after the timing you have to stop. So the JAGs team does the right math to get the right total boat weight to power to get the best for the competition. All count , more cells weight more will need higher power to reach the same speed after the same distance and only if the race course is bigger you can win with this higher power set up. Power is not all. It helps but the right aerodynamics possible help more. Hubert i sent you the article about Limits for Straight Away racing. This is for combustion motors and they start from a turn with plenty of basic speed. They have not this very hard dragracing acceleration that the current record boats use.They all start from laying like a gator in, under the water and then push in seconds up to topspeed. So if you have unlimited power best way will be a dragboat design. The other thing is that J?rg has over years contact to the batterie manufactory and they build this spezial cells extra for his team. As i know they have 3000 mAh and 5000 mAh cells.
So in some case the smaller one are to small and in the other the bigger are to big. The motors are not the limit today. We have designed motor for electric turbo charger that turn up to 250000 rpm. With outrunner designs we have motor/alternators that have to surface speed of Mach2 with no flux limiting bandage in the airgap. And as you know the regulations say 10S 2P , hey that power is incredible , water will cook in time. So you see there are many ways to go and many mistakes to do. We will look to help you to find the right way , but you have to select all this input to your owen mind construction as we do not know what in your brain are the best components and design rules that will be the recodbreaker design. 1983 my Crapshooter with 30 1,5 Ah nicad cells and spezial wound amature motor with brushes was my way to reach 50 mph . Today every toyboat from China can do this speed. So the world is changing and you know that i test many designs and set ups but for some it is better they are secret wonders that are not competiv. Every here has his owen crazy thoughts . Do you know about our front propeller canard boat designs ? This boats run well , do not flip as they have the self trust limiting design. But at the end we are fast but not the winner. We spend many time and thinking and build many prototype to look how it workes.

Happy Amps Christian

[RaceMechaniX]

Christian tell me more about this 250kRPM turbo motor.

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Tyler,
yes i tell you , but first i show the wing in ground effect boats from the eastern world.

Happy Amps Christian

[Ch.Lucas]

Ok , and now the motor.
It was a basic 3 slot , 3 coil motor design with near closed hammer heads. We put the coils from outside on the stator tooth and press fit all inside a plated ring. After all is glued together we grind the inside dia tomthe right and open with it the hammerheads. More intresting is the design of the rotor. The rotor is more interesting. In order to protect everything against centrifugal forces, we have tested various rotor bandages. First are the carbon fiber bandage. We finished it beforehand on an undersized mandrel and then pushed it onto the permanent magnets with a hydraulic press to ensure a high preload.
The second version got this bandage sleeve made of a non-magnetic steel which was also pressed on hydraulically.
The third version was created by winding a 0.2mm titanium wire. The titanium wire is wound onto the rotor magnets with the appropriate pre-tension and inserted into slots in end disks and pressed for fastening.
The titanium wire version was the one with the thinnest bandage thickness with the same centrifugal force. Bearings Ceramic Hybrid ball bearings (steel rings with ceramic balls) axially preloaded.Thatˋs all.
If you have questions , aske.
And here a pic of a 400 kw outrunner for quadrocoppter that workes as a alternator powered by a gas turbine feeding the rotormotors each 100 kw.

Happy Amps Christian

[eXoNerated]

Thanks Christian basic lessons will help someone...but Since scale is not a open class no wonder motors will be in any scale boat there. The option to pay for a high-speed rotor design has always been available and nothing is new about that . Bottom line I cant use it so my work wont be that simple and I probably won't run a Lehner either. So my option and his are totally different.

Be mindful false numbers never help they hurt. Better to say its proprietary. You already know I do my own math so if the number is not right I will find it and you know that very well. Christian. U can help by turning me onto the real cells or not . Lets not play games. Ok? Thats the only thing I can't achieve on my own about this boat and u know that too. Please don't take it the wrong way but if anything is remotely proprietary just keep it. I can't use it so I'd rather not clutter my mind with open brainstorming. You and Tyler can share it here but I wont comment on 250,000 rpm motors for the scale class. Pipe dreams as far as im concerned. I'm not from Germany so u know this means certain batteries and props will evade me so this also never happens. I dont really have a team I'm just a guy with one good prop man but it seems the Jags team expands Lol. Good thing their boat is not my problem. I'm glad you're enjoying the tread. Maybe the next time Tyler is in Munich ull give him the right motor or the prints but some how I dont think that will fit in the boats.



Thanks
Hubert.

[RaceMechaniX]

Ok , and now the motor.
It was a basic 3 slot , 3 coil motor design with near closed hammer heads. We put the coils from outside on the stator tooth and press fit all inside a plated ring. After all is glued together we grind the inside dia tomthe right and open with it the hammerheads. More intresting is the design of the rotor. The rotor is more interesting. In order to protect everything against centrifugal forces, we have tested various rotor bandages. First are the carbon fiber bandage. We finished it beforehand on an undersized mandrel and then pushed it onto the permanent magnets with a hydraulic press to ensure a high preload.
The second version got this bandage sleeve made of a non-magnetic steel which was also pressed on hydraulically.
The third version was created by winding a 0.2mm titanium wire. The titanium wire is wound onto the rotor magnets with the appropriate pre-tension and inserted into slots in end disks and pressed for fastening.
The titanium wire version was the one with the thinnest bandage thickness with the same centrifugal force. Bearings Ceramic Hybrid ball bearings (steel rings with ceramic balls) axially preloaded.Thatˋs all.
If you have questions , aske.
And here a pic of a 400 kw outrunner for quadrocoppter that workes as a alternator powered by a gas turbine feeding the rotormotors each 100 kw.

Happy Amps Christian

Thanks Christian,

I assume the non-magnetic sleeve was 718 Inco, this is pretty popular for high speed rotors that cannot use CFRP. Very clever thought on wrapping with Ti wire. Did you ever measure rotor heating effects due to eddy currents? CF has only a few watts of losses, but I know Inco is high enough that some type of non-passive cooling mechanism is needed like using the compressed air to blow through the motor gap. At 250kRPM you must be approaching 50-100W I guess.

So the motor was a 3 tooth concentrated pole with 2-pole rotor. 0.2mm laminations or similar thin silicone steel. Did you try Litz wire? Here you start to need 50kHz+ switching frequencies.

-Tyler

[RaceMechaniX]

Thanks Christian basic lessons will help someone...but Since scale is not a open class no wonder motors will be in any scale boat there. The option to pay for a high-speed rotor design has always been available and nothing is new about that . Bottom line I cant use it so my work wont be that simple and I probably won't run a Lehner either. So my option and his are totally different.

Be mindful false numbers never help they hurt. Better to say its proprietary. You already know I do my own math so if the number is not right I will find it and you know that very well. Christian. U can help by turning me onto the real cells or not . Lets not play games. Ok? Thats the only thing I can't achieve on my own about this boat and u know that too. Please don't take it the wrong way but if anything is remotely proprietary just keep it. I can't use it so I'd rather not clutter my mind with open brainstorming. You and Tyler can share it here but I wont comment on 250,000 rpm motors for the scale class. Pipe dreams as far as im concerned. I'm not from Germany so u know this means certain batteries and props will evade me so this also never happens. I dont really have a team I'm just a guy with one good prop man but it seems the Jags team expands Lol. Good thing their boat is not my problem. I'm glad you're enjoying the tread. Maybe the next time Tyler is in Munich ull give him the right motor or the prints but some how I dont think that will fit in the boats.



Thanks
Hubert.

Hubert unless you plan on racing in a German SAW event you will not need the special batteries. You can run 2P in the US and get 90% of the way there without all the hassle. In fact we have an advantage running 2P over the single cells. There is more weight, but the chemistry is quite stable and anyone can buy them from Hobbyking, Dinogy or RoaringTop USA. The SLS cells may have a slight premium over the others mentioned but you will not be able to bring them into the US easily with shipping restrictions.

If you plan on running for an official IMPBA or NAMBA record then you need to use one of the allowed motors. However you can always run you scale boat in the sport hydro class and then just need to meet the basic voltage limit rules. So outrunners of any shape and size would be allowed.

BTW, the high speed motors we are talking about are not for model boats. These are electric turbo's and electric compressors.

-Tyler

[eXoNerated]

I understand T but This isnt a thread about 400 kw motors that have no place in our boats. Christian knows exactly what Im talking about Tyler.

It's very easy to start a thread about marvel motors. But why get side tracked? I want to make an attempt at the scale saw record and this genius posted has no bearing whatsoever on that, but I'm cool with the open sharing that truly has no merit for what I'm trying to do here. I'd want the best batteries no matter where I compete. My thing is there's no need to dangle great possibilities if they are not applicable and have really nothing to do with the topic at hand. The truth is once the numbers become proprietary there's nothing more to be taken from dreamy post. That's the truth T. The power level is 20+kW and the rpm is 90000 i can make real determinations from that.

More importantly our eyes see something different about your boat. The help there is to a point. Never forget that T. Ultimately They push for the overall benefit of the eastern shores not us.

Regards
Hubert

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Tyler,
magnets sliced for less eddy current, like this from Lehner , one with and one without sleve.
With 0,2mm plates is ok . We had from other project 0.07 mm cobalt iron plates that we used but that was overstyled.
And yes lizwire 400 strands is a must.

Happy Amps Christian

[eXoNerated]

Hi Chris Im still up. No email response..... @ Tyler you always need the best batteries fior the best performance. If turnigy was the ticket hed be running it.

Regards
Hubert

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi,
okay , let us see what boat you will,run and how it performs. Show it at the pond .

Happy Amps Christian

[eXoNerated]

Ok, youve already seen it so Ill let you sew the patch when that happens. Boat and motor on the way. Share ya scratch build side by side. My hood is open. It certainly interesting that you say aerodynamics play more of a part than power in a 24kW boat. As Ive said and wont after this again for fear of being redundant there have been already many great designs aerodynamically and they did not have 24kW and the did not go 200. Those are the facts. Jim Auguston had aerodynamics and designs pegged for fast electric riggers 30 years ago.

Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

How much mail has come to me about building the custom bridge to do this?Do you remember if you have u sent any such email? If you dont have the inverter you cannot see the motors full potential. We can talk all day about that but it really a waste of time because it is what it is and no debate changes that. I still have my view that Tylers boat is more aerodynamically neutral and I still say that after the 400kW thing. To say he has too much lift is a matter of opinion unless you had it in a tunnel. I'm equally free to have an opinion that differs from yours. If your pond metrics still hold from 83 that's cool but it is 2020 and we're in the here and now. So this is my opinion in 2020 and the boat I build belongs to me so if its trash its my trash and that's all good. The most basic aerodynamics will show that Jorgs tub is going to create lift and I stand behind the statement fully. Lift helps the boat in the right place. If it is focused at the CG it shouldn't truly pitch the nose up. Does one need the pond to know that.... be 4 real. You come to the pond Christian and an UN-intimidated American will show you he has a brain also. It doesn't take 11 patents or aerospace instrumentation to know you push the motor way up in Olivers hull to keep the nose down. The standard T4 creates too much lift for straight line speed so there you go on your way to work on that. The best running t4 off a shelf is wooden and its made here and I stand behind that too. It has to be built u cant easily purchase glass this time. In fact I could build the better T4 if I wanted as a plug and then send it to AT in Germany to get back a carbon copy. All your problems are solved that simple.

I dont know the full scoop on your boats data and dont need to to know 10kW aint gonna cut it for the worlds fastest electric powered rc boat. You build this aerodynamically superior boat in all its glory that will run faster with half the power.This would be even more interesting at the pond. There you can show us how that runs and the tangibility of it all.

Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

@ Christian,
While I respect your creativity, I want to add some realism here in my thread. None of these Russian boats that you have published has the speed record for a boat. So why are you only convinced by theory? To get mad here if it is not accepted in the one place, it is not applicable does not make any sense. In addition, most people died while driving these concepts. Is it safe to say yet that they didn't work? As you know, the fastest boat in the world is the spirit of Australia. Now please watch the photo of the boat and tell me that you see exceptional aerodynamics or exceptional power in this boat. And well also the more traditional 3-point unlimited posture. You may be older and superior in thought according to you, but your eyes should definitely work well and you should accept the real results. Over the years of our friendship I have encouraged you to share many times these ideas but you never start this thread. What happens is this and that doesn't get us anywhere. It never has. And this isnt about the accuracy of correlating real boats to a model so if that's next u can save that argument. I don't need that elemental understanding.

Thank you,
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

Wenn Sie all dies und die Tatsache ber?cksichtigen, dass Jags sicherlich nicht alles hat, was Sie vorschlagen. Ich denke, ich mache ein verdammt gutes Argument. Um diese Art der Sch?pfung zu verwirklichen, m?ssen SIE, Christian Lucas, sie bauen und uns allen zeigen, wie sie funktioniert, aber es besteht kein Zweifel daran, dass es nicht notwendig ist, schnell zu laufen. Verstehst du mich? Und jetzt kannst du das tun, weil es zu fortgeschritten ist Ich brauche zu viel Zeit und brauche es nicht, um 100 zu laufen. Sie sehen von 83 bis jetzt, was in dieser Hinsicht getan wurde. Die Zeit wird knapp!

Regards
Hubert