Whos making these wire drive coupling systems?

[NativePaul]

You're not stupid Hubert, in much of this thread you have proved yourself way smarter than me, in free air with no zero incidence the more curved surface of a wing will indeed produce lift, this is Bernoulli's principle and Bernoulli is strong enough to kick Newton and his theory of gravity's ass. At worst you are ignorant of the other forces also at work.

Not to be out done Newton came out swinging like brad pit in snatch in the rematch and knocked Bernoulli out cold, Newtons law of motion describes a reactionary force that comes from the angle of attack and it can easily outweigh the lift or downforce generated by Bernoulli's principle speeding up the air on the top surface of the wing, I have flown several model planes with the typical flat bottom round top Clark Y airfoil seen in textbooks, and they all fly OK when upside down, not as good, but they do still fly.

Our boat's tub is not in free air however it is in ground effect, which will not only amplify the forces acting on it but make them act in new ways, if for example the tub (wing) section is not a Clark Y but a NACA 2412 the interaction between the tub and the water will create a venturi, and where the air gets pinched it increases speed, and with the speed increase you get a pressure drop, and that pressure drop can be big enough that you wouldn't even notice the drop on top, Bernoulli's making a comeback baby, but this time he is here to beat himself up like Edward Norton in fight club, If you add fences into the equation it has the effect of making the wing have an infinite aspect ratio, he is now giving his top surfaces a pasting with his own baseball bat.

You've seen the bottom of it to know it is that profile then Hubert? You're one up on me then, got any pics you can share? I am assuming that the tail feathers for there for vertical stability, are a symetrical section and at 0 angle of attack when at running attitude.

Given both Jorg and Arne's driving style of being fairly slow out of the hole and achieving peak acceleration about 100m later, I can't imagine the tail feathers being there primarily for the launch. I am assuming that they are of a symmetrical profile and set to zero angle of attack at running attitude, just being there to lift the tail and level it out should the nose come up, to stop blowovers.

[eXoNerated]

Right "just being there to lift the tail and level it out should the nose come up, to stop blowovers." Seems to me you are very at physics

Paul

The boats cg is may not be a few inches behind the sponsons trailing edge. It may be more the middle of the boat somewhere so i look at the boat more like a sled and different how our JAE run which can likely do a wheelie. My perspective sees some drag bike or car influence with the sponsons pushed so far ahead I see it like rake to me. Im thinking if the cg is in a central location the lift on the rear yes may push the nose down. I have not seen the bottom of the boat and definitely cant tell the creator how it works so im just looking and saying things that come to mind. I do know the tub doesn't have to be designed like Jorg's to be fairly neutral if it is. I was only talking to Tyler about the boats because it in his class that he runs. But the truth is. I got my own fish to fry.



Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

I guess in alot of ways you also need to know really how hes riding on the prop and his strut AOA.

[HTVboats]

Used to be a guy over on IW who knew everything and was going to show all us tunnel guys how superior his skills were. Never did come to Charleston and ever actually raced away from his keyboard that I know of. I believe he was banned there. I have the ultimate respect for the guys who actually set these impressive records. They don't need to brag about things they just work hard and do it. Humility is a virtue.
Mic

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Paul,
He gets upset because he thinks I am deliberately writing as if he were stupid. I've never had the intention to sell as a fool. It only came about in his thoughts. Unfortunately, he quickly forgets what has been done for him. In the attached picture, are you in England? I was at some competitions in Red House Park, Birmingham. At that time, Allan Greenfield was still racing boats before he founded Weston UK. Do you know Nick Rees , a very crazy modelboater with some of the best boat designs ever. Had fun in the UK. I set the speed record for electric racing boats to 50 mph in 1983. The existing record in the USA was only 25 mph. Since then I have developed hydro model racing boats for Graupner, developed the surface steering drives and the hydro propellers for Graupner. Everything quite popular, sold very well. With Hans Lehner I developed brush motors, then the brushless motors with air gap coils, and I was the first to develop the sensorless speed controller. I brought the external rotor motors into model construction when I developed these motors at Magnet Motor GmbH for special applications. In Germany I introduced the hydro racing series, which were then added to the Naviga, which your English listened to. I have several patents on electric motors and electronics as well as fuel cells that Horizon fuelcell is currently producing. Since we also develop many drives for the military, I cannot tell much about them, only what we are currently developing there is far away from the model electric motors. Tyler knows the company.
I have never seen a single model racing boat from Hubert, nor has he won any championship in the USA or a race. He has never been able to show that.
A lot of things run differently in competitions than if you only model-built at home. Since I took part in 5 World Championships together with H. Lehner, I know what I'm talking about.
Since I developed boats for model construction for Graupner on a free basis, I had very good contacts with Michael Werner, Formula 1 world champion tunnel outboard motor and Fabio Buzzi, multiple offshore world champion and designer of the Buzzi FB design racing boats and world record hydroplane with diesel engines and hydroplane Gas turbine. I have had many long talks with him.
Hubert know mit not personaly .

Only because Hubert wants to portray me as stupid.

Photos i think Paul at Red House Park and when i set the speedrecord electric modelboats in 1983 in Italy / Milano , Idroscalo, when i was 24 years old.
Do you know how many use sensorless esc ? and outrunner motors ? and many things more.

Happy Amps Christian

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Mic,
my intension is to help when someone has a question. Hubert has a lot of questions that I answered him as I think I would. It is always up to the questioner what He then thinks about it. That is outside what you often think. Nor am I the best in English.
Unfortunately, he also forgets that.

Happy Amps Christian

[NativePaul]

"Seems to me you are very at physics" Sorry Hubert, but you will have to literally spell it out for me, this sentence looks like it is missing something.


Christian, that is quite the resume you have there.

Redhouse Park has fond memories for me, I got my fist win there running a scale hydro in 4/12 open (that later became Hydro2), it is a tiny lake with brick walls for banks, and unfortunately as the speeds went up it became less viable, and we stopped racing there before the LiPo era.

I know Nick rees I respect his designs ability but not him as a person. I didn't know Allan was a boat racer, that explains why he had some boat stuff in what was otherwise a helicopter shop when I first went there.

Good job on those Lehner motors, man I recall how much I lusted after a brushed Lehner 540 that was in my local boat shop as a kid in my teens, I was running machine wound ferites at the time, and everyone I knew running rare earth used the Graupner Ultra/Plettenberg motors, but I think I would have given my left leg for that beautiful little Lehner, I would still like one now, I've no use for it anymore but just as a thing of beauty and a reminder of a bygone age.

Everyone I know uses sensorless motors and ESCs in boats.

I don't think I have ever seen an outrunner in a competitive Mono/Hydro 1/2, just the odd one in a crappy RTR a newcomer brings and quickly moves on from. I do see them sometimes in Mini Mono, and they are fairly popular in Mini Hydro as that class is so weight critical and you can save some weight by not having water cooling, Most are inrunners, but I wouldn't be surprised if they overtake inrunners within a few years. We don't race them, but I see a few scale hydros at the lakes an I would guess that over half of them have outrunners, which is often because they sound a bit like turbines.

On the subject of ekranoplans, not all of them are airscrew driven and capable of flight, I recall from my Cat research a Switzer/ schwisser or similar (bad spelling, i tried searching for it just now but couldn't find it as I cant spell it) I think it was in the low 20' range, and a high deadrise cat design with a 1 man cockpit and an outboard on each sponson and was of the tandem wing arrangement.

A bunch of my boating buddies have told me a tale of when they went to a Naviga worlds in maybe mid to late 2000s and a German chap brought a water prop driven Ecranoplan for Hydro 2, none of them had seen anything like it before and didn't think it would work, but it did and well by all accounts, which left their jaws on the floor, that wasn't you was it, or do you know who it might have been? No one got a photo and I would love to see it to see if i can figure out the magic they say he must have used to control the prop depth.

PM me if you know about either of the ekroanoplans to avoid annoying Hubert further, I don't think he likes them.

[eXoNerated]

@ Paul
I def like the things you do and your boats ALOT . No sarcasm. You know the physical laws that affect the hull quite well. Christian u know I hardly think you are stupid or hate the Lun. I guess I was a bit dramatic but my point was to go fastest having the most power can have its benifit. Maybe there was some confusion in language. When I said aerodynamically neutral dont confuse it with lower drag coefficient. The German hull def has more slip, but I do believe there is a level of power that can push the Americans hull to 200 mph. I just think it may take a custom bridge at its size. For me it is hard to belive that there is no lift in the German hull from what my eyes see, but anything is possible.

Thank You,
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

For perspective when I say aerodynamically neutral what I mean is as long as the boat is running level with the water line the hull does have alot of influece from the aerodymic design to pitch the boat in in either direction if you looked at the boat as a see saw with its fulcrum at the cg point. I do believe what Christian is taking about is in the moment that wake,wind gust or any other physical force other than those place on the hull by its aerodynamic design will have a more profoundly negative effect than the German hull and also that the American hull could gain speed re-designed to utilize lift or downforce in the appropriate areas.

Regards,
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

Christian you state that you invented the sensorless brusless speed control. May I see that patent? My books say Joseph Di Tucci was granted this patent in the US in 1993?

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/cd/57/25/d3a6a9a20c90e7/US5367234.pdf

The first ever brusless inverter was called solid state commutation and It was PH Trickey and another TG Wilson. at Duke University Durham, N.C. much earlier like the 60's. It was was perfected to a level never seen before first in Rock Hill SC. in and around 1983/84.

The brushless motor was inveted by Nikolas Tesla if Im not mistaken he was definitely one of the forefathers and that would have been before most of us were born.

"I have never seen a single model racing boat from Hubert, nor has he won any championship in the USA or a race. He has never been able to show that."


You cannot post all these things you have and in the same breath it's only my imagination you try to portray the idea to everyone that anything great I do is a product of your answers and that because I have not persued all these accolades in model boats that you detail that I havent a clue what im talking about when it comes to physical science. I still have degrees and all my understanding that come from people like bernolli and newton who have not competed or won an IMPBA SAW record no different than you.Your list of accomplisment is impressive but still its no measure of my intellect. If you ever feel that sharing any of it means I have to be subjected to this ad hominem I dont need this help and we cannot be friends. Your point is always to prove you know more than someone to the audience and I dont know why you feel the need to do that if you are truly intelligent about humanity as well.

Let me ask you a few things metrically speaking if thats the way you value things. What is the fastest verifyable through gps or recorded competition speed you have ever run a model boat? Have you ever scratch built a 1:8 scale u-1 hydro for SAW or oval racing? Have you ever built an 1/8 th scale ever? What was its fastest recorded speed?

Have you run an 1/8 scale hydro at 90 mph that you built?


Im going to buy a gps put it in my boat show you I can run 90. I do not want your help and after Im done I choose to end this friendship because you truly need to know you and your accolades are no reflection of me they are a reflection of you.Im gifted and have always been with or without your ideas. From here I will work on this boat on my own and simply share here the video and result. I would not want a friendly exchange of ideas to continue to feed his ego that hes creating me. Christian you should already know I have never seen a model boat you built complete or run at all and neither have many other people here.


Hubert.

[eXoNerated]

Here is the log bronze sleeves and oil port. The wire is supported through the hull with this log and on each end with the motor coupling and and strut. I'll cross drill the sleeves and move on from a simple task. Setting up a wire drive. Enjoy the airplane.

Regards,
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

One man one plan is all anyone needs to build a quality boat. I dont care what race they have been or have not been to. People with little to no experience can come in with common sense purchase the right equipment and post a good speed. If you havent seen this then you truly have not been exposed to model boating.I t does not take 37 years of chronological progression to reach 90. Not only have I built boats that run well they actually look nice too. I build scale boats. Not just sleds for high speed. And no I'm not going to take one of my scale boats out and race with just anybody but you can bring yours here and I will race you. If you dont understand why then I could say again one hasn't truly been exposed to model boat racing. Let one scrape your circus? Ok? But this idea that I havent been exposed to rc boat at an advanced level is totally off base and simply not true.

And I bet you I get a scale on the water running 90 before he gets any of those ideas he has drawn on paper built and on the water running 90. I wanna see it. Those accolades wont make that happen in 2020. None of that's going to be on the water anytime soon unless it in the pool or bathtub.


Regards
Hubert.

[NativePaul]

I think you may have been responding to Mic, but for what it is worth I know full well that someones worth is not integrally linked to their competition success or their experience, sometimes it it is good to be outside the box as it takes no effort to think outside it, many more of your ideas will be fresh and less will be tired rehashes of other peoples ideas from the past.

The fastest RC boat I know of was designed built and run by a guy who has never competed in any form of RC boats, has never even attended any form of formal RC boat race. He did things very differently from how I would have dreamed of, his boat having a lot of down force, and a LOT of power to get over the drag. It is definitely not how I would have done it, but that hasn't stopped him seeing speeds on his pitot and GPS nearly 3 times higher than my highest trap speed and 45mph faster than Jorg's fastest trap speed.

[oscarel]

I might be off base here and didn't read the entire thread, but I saw Brent Beyers mentioned. I have run his shafts with a LMT 3080 in a gas sized sport hydro, a little bend isn't going to hurt it. He has or had an insert that fit into the 8mm collet Zippkit sells.

20200621_212324.jpg

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi,
first you have to learn to read. I didn't write that I invented the brushless motor. I wrote that I was the first to introduce the sensorless controller in model making and with Lehner Motorentechnik these first sensorless ESCs were also sold and all other manufacturers such as Aveox, Kontronik, Schultze etc. copied it afterwards.
You know exactly that I do not build 1: 8 hydroplanes and will not build either. You are not my thing. I build smaller hydroplanes for which I originally introduced the hydro model boat races with Graupner in Europe. I built Outrigger with an electric drive and a combustion engine. The fastest electric target measured was a narrow crapshooter. It has reached 105 mph with an external rotor motor and a v955 Octura propeller.
The fastest outrigger I drove was a Twin 90 Wind thing that ran 184 km / h, 115 mph, measured in Italy on the Idrocalo. Believe me, I have been to model planet boat races almost everywhere on this planet and have participated in competitions there.
You have never participated in a model racing boat race with international participation. Show a competition in which you participated and also won?
Otherwise you can generate a GPS speed value, that is not proof. Show a video of the boat passing through the test section and the speed of the target being measured. That's what you have to show, nothing else has any value.
Big notes like you say here are of no value.

Happy Amps Christian