Namba oval racing class changes ***

[dethow]

A local, "Run-What-You-Brung", or stock RTR, or whatever class, is EXACTLY what the clubs should be doing.

Terry Davis...
I propose that MMEU moves away from Spec SV27 and starts a "P-Lite Offshore" class which allows monos and cats with any motor under 36x61mm.
This would be a great class to bring new guys into without throwing them straight into a high traffic sprint. Besides... there are some I've heard who run P-Limited boats in Open P Offshore due to little extra speed benefits in that class. Simply put... Fast flips. This may actually be an avenue to setup a perfect Open P Offshore boat.
If we get a lot of guys doing it then we consider adding sprint classes as well.

I'd propose switching all together, but we have to keep the limited classes within the current NAMBA rules so that those going to Nats or other out of area events have setup/ready and proven boats to race.

[dethow]

Here... this will clearly show what Tony is referring too. Both motors, loaded to ~100A@4S for 60-seconds. Look at the Loaded KV, the KV-Loss under load, and especially the Delta Temperature (temp gain after 60-seconds). Clearly, the DYNM2000 is inferior, regardless of prop.

NOTE: By loading them all to 100A on the same 4S Lipo, it means they are all being tested at the same power output. Much more accurate than "which prop did I use"...

Nice graph... explains many things. I don't actually think the PB2000 is a better motor. Nor do I even care.

But I do have a problem with it being allowed into events when its not allowed within the rules. It's being allowed because whoever bought a brand new V3 ProBoat and it's close enough. Well, a TFL Pursuit or Popeye with an SSS 3660 motor is just as close to legal as a V3 ProBoat but they will not be allowed.

Yes, I understand local clubs can do what they want. And they should.
But what I'm only trying to point out and have acknowledged is that there is a massive fundamental problem in the current rules. A problem which has reduced the amount of RTR legal boats by half and from what was two manufactures to now only one. And that one legal manufacture hasn't been doing much for new development and thus are producing less appealing boats compared to those that are similar in size and cost that no longer fit the rules.

It simply needs to be pointed out that the motor rules need to change sooner than later. Yes, us with our existing boats don't have an issue... yet. But the rules are hurting new comers and pushing them away.
And that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

[T.S.Davis]

Dave, I'm with you on the timing but I would go even further. Finish out the season with what we have and propose it full on across the classes. Re-write the limit to 36x61 and move on right or wrong. It's clearly broken the way we're doing it so a solution must be proposed. It wont be perfect. Some will be pissed. I hope though that most will see why it has to happen.

On the Bj and Geico motors.....when they first started showing up at the pond some of us knew they were less motor than we were already running. That's the only reason we asked our club to just allowing them. If I thought they were going to upset the apple cart I would never have suggested it. I wish I had NOT suggested it in hind sight. Couple reasons:

One, the motor sucks. Sorry PB it just does. So guys are trying to compete with a setup we know isn't going to keep up. Sure there are exceptions but the likelihood that a brand new guy is going to show up with less power and stomp a mud hole in our behinds is low.

Two, we may have been forced to address this sooner.

What were doing right now absolutely is going to fail. We just don't know when.

My thinking is that we go into 2017 with a new limitation. If it fails it fails. I honestly don't think it will though.

[dethow]

Dave, I'm with you on the timing but I would go even further. Finish out the season with what we have and propose it full on across the classes. Re-write the limit to 36x61 and move on right or wrong. It's clearly broken the way we're doing it so a solution must be proposed. It wont be perfect. Some will be pissed. I hope though that most will see why it has to happen.

Are you talking about proposing "it full on across the classes" for all NAMBA? Or are you just talking about our MMEU club?

If you think it can happen within NAMBA... great I'm onboard.
But if you are NOT talking about NAMBA and just talking MMEU... how can we really do that? Mostly You, Tyler, and Tom will suffer if you use one motor for club races than have to go back to NAMBA limited for your travels. And what about MI Cup? How do we deal with guys coming from out of town that don't want to race their AQs and PBs against TPs?

All I'm saying is that if it can't happen that fast for NAMBA rules, then why don't we (MMEU) make this single new class, "P-Lite Offshore"? Or "MMEU Offshore"... or whatever we name it. Maybe "Size Matters"... LOL (That's for you Mike Ball).

I don't care about the PB2000 motors. I was only making the point that per the letter of the NAMBA rules... those RTR boats are not allowed. That fact just furthers the need for rule changes... NOW

[Darin Jordan]

36.3mm x 61.2mm

You can't spec 36x61 or none will measure up, including the present motors.

Trust me, I've measured them...

[T.S.Davis]

No I want to change the limit in the NAMBA book for everyone starting 2017. Yes it can happen. It will take some effort and some explanation to go out with the proposal but I'm up for it. Some of the discussion here will likely show up in that explanatory dialog.

The fact that there has been so little opposition thus far is a pretty good indication that people aren't that outraged by the idea. Skepticism sure. People asking "what about this, that, the other" but none of the typical lunacy we get with something like this.

I follow on the PB thing too. One could easily argue that we should allow the TFL because it's an RTR, that we should allow the Promarine because it's an RTR. Then it's......why did we let PB in the door? Why not boat X,Y,Z? Yadaydayada. Is that cheese I smell?

Broke. Gotta do something.

.......... or we let "limited" just die on it's vine and go back to the original power table. Not sure that's the best route either.

[dethow]

36.3mm x 61.2mm

You can't spec 36x61 or none will measure up, including the present motors.

Trust me, I've measured them...

Understood Darin... we are just simplifying to conversation. But yes... the dims you provided are what needs to be proposed.

[dethow]

One could easily argue that we should allow the TFL because it's an RTR, that we should allow the Promarine because it's an RTR. Then it's......why did we let PB in the door? Why not boat X,Y,Z? Yadaydayada. Is that cheese I smell?

TFLs are ARTR (no servo or radio). At least as sold by our USA TFL dealer, the one and only... Offshore Electrics. Which why no servo guys???

and Promarine comes with 3674 motors (too big).

So not really an easy argument...

[Darin Jordan]

TFLs are ARTR (no servo or radio). At least as sold by our USA TFL dealer, the one and only... Offshore Electrics. Which why no servo guys???

and Promarine comes with 3674 motors (too big).

So not really an easy argument...

I think that there is NO reasonable NATIONAL level answer to including just ANY RTR in a specific class. My take would be that the local clubs can handle this however they want. In the case of the Pursuit vs. the PMRC boats, I think the Pursuit has a legal sized motor, and the PMRC doesn't... Easy to work. If the driver is capable, he can race the PMRC boat in the standard P-Class, or the club can provide a "Run-Whatcha-Brung" class, just to give "newbies" the opportunity to race. If they get hooked, they can then work to comply with the existing rules.

On a NATIONAL level, there is no real valid reason to include any kind of "RTR" class. Just doesn't make sense.

[dethow]

I think that there is NO reasonable NATIONAL level answer to including just ANY RTR in a specific class. My take would be that the local clubs can handle this however they want. In the case of the Pursuit vs. the PMRC boats, I think the Pursuit has a legal sized motor, and the PMRC doesn't... Easy to work. If the driver is capable, he can race the PMRC boat in the standard P-Class, or the club can provide a "Run-Whatcha-Brung" class, just to give "newbies" the opportunity to race. If they get hooked, they can then work to comply with the existing rules.

On a NATIONAL level, there is no real valid reason to include any kind of "RTR" class. Just doesn't make sense.

[Darin Jordan]

HOLY CRAP??? WHAT JUST HAPPENED??!!!

[dethow]

HOLY CRAP??? WHAT JUST HAPPENED??!!!

WHAT!!!???
There's nothing you said there that is in dispute of any existing rules or where the rules will be if we change to the 36.3mm x 61.2mm size rule.
I've never said all RTR should be included or able to run in limited on a national level. All boats need to run within the class they fit.

All I've been saying is that the current rules are excluding a lot of RTR or ARTR boats that should be allowed. Such as the Pursuit, Popeye, V3 Blackjack and V3 Geico. PMRC 3674 motor is too big, but maybe they will offer an option for a 3660 motor if the NAMBA rule changes.

We're all good Darin... You may not realize it but I've been on your side this whole time.
Well not the whole time. There was a time MANY MANY months ago I was pushing for ridiculous 40mm motor options. I gave that up a long time ago thou and agree with every point made on that subject.

I just want to move forward and get this rule changed so I can stop buying AQs. As I said... I just burned up 3 at last MMEU race. I usually keep backups, but I don't want to buy anymore. I will run what I have until this rule is changed. I'm done with AQs. But I have bought a few PB1500s. Just haven't had a chance to setup a boat with one yet.

[Darin Jordan]

We're all good Darin... You may not realize it but I've been on your side this whole time.

Hahahaa... I know... I was just making a joke about a NAMBA rules based discussion coming to ANYONE in it agreeing on something!