P-Limited Motors - Im going to jump on the hot seat.

[jaike5]

Darin, there is No stability in the market in any of the esc's we use. Hydra HV comes to mind. I was just going with what comes out of the box . We have logged those wee little aqua esc's holding there own at 90 amps in the corners. If you start poring cash into the rtr's the newbie gets bummed out and his/ her boat sits on the shelf collecting dust and there out.

Cheers, Jay

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, there is No stability in the market in any of the esc's we use. Hydra HV comes to mind. I was just going with what comes out of the box . We have logged those wee little aqua esc's holding there own at 90 amps in the corners. If you start poring cash into the rtr's the newbie gets bummed out and his/ her boat sits on the shelf collecting dust and there out.

Cheers, Jay

Jay, I understand what you are saying, which is EXACTLY why I do NOT want NAMBA rules in the business of having to document part numbers or defining that level of specifics. That's where we are now, and it ONLY works while the parts are available. I would think we'd want to get to a point where we did NOT have to revisit the rules every time there is a change in technology.

Just my opinion. We'll have to keep discussing it.

[RandyatBBY]

Darin I think we are getting it narrowed down to what it needs to be. Are you going to write the new proposal? From what I am reading coming from you I like it.

[T.S.Davis]

An example of this is that I witnessed a TFL Pursuit with a TP 3630 1950kv motor and a X447/3 prop run with P-Sport Hydros and keep up with them. That Pursuit had to be running between 55 to 60mph.... .

Dave, that was a 4060 1950kv. It's a ton more motor than a 3630 is. I don't have a TP3630. I have an SSS motor that's close I think.

The idea here is NOT to add more powerful motors to limited at all. That would totally screw up what's working. It's to write a spec that only allows motors that are close in performance to what we've been running since 2008.

I'm not for singling out stock boat guys. They need to be included and not placed at a separate table like the little kids at thanks giving dinner. Plus that just further divides the numbers. An SV or even a Revolt stocker class is fine but not IMO for the everyone.

Jay, we have a LOT of P limited boats in our club. Some with AQ speedo, some with PB, some with Seaking, some with Castle. Makes no difference. The motor is the week link. In fact, some of our classes were won by guys with AQ Revolts in stock form. I don't think my boats are slow and still those guy won so I think the speedos don't do a thing for me.

With the dim and weight limits I think that will still be the case.

I'm still worried about the max cost thing. I know we could "what if" this to death. I worry that some manufacturer will find some superior unobtainium winding material and then we all gotta have em. Rotor wrapped in Irukandji tentacles.

[Ken Haines]

[QUOTE=dethow;639463]Guys, I'm just not getting the logic here. It seems like we all want better motors to be included in the limited class so we can run faster. Isn't that already defined by the open (unlimited) classes? You're talking about using motors in the limited class that one could use in the open class and be competitive.

No No No................I will be openly opposed to motors that are added to the list that
end up changing the speeds of the limited classes. That would mean all racers at club,
big race or national levels would have to buy all new motors to stay competitive.
Again this is why I am foot dragging on this topic. We do currently have a list of motors
that is still available and the class is working just the way it is. So lets not invent a new crisis
here. Darin I respect you immensely, but not sure of the reason for a rush on this.
Our sport is fragile enough at least in our area and at the large race level as observed by the
drop in race attendance at all venues even gas and nitro this entire year.
Not to start a hornets nest but some Aquacraft failures are do to the lead wires shorting as
the enter the can. This is something we all know. I also know this had been beaten to death
before, but maybe should we have allowed simple lead wire insulation addition like 1 piece of
shrink on the middle lead wire. Please lets discuss like gentlemen as I know this issue got real
ugly some time ago.

I would also add that I hope the renewed interest in racing rules here is also an indication of
renewed interest in racing that will show up as an increase in attendance.

[RandyatBBY]

Dave, that was a 4060 1950kv. It's a ton more motor than a 3630 is. I don't have a TP3630. I have an SSS motor that's close I think.

The idea here is NOT to add more powerful motors to limited at all. That would totally screw up what's working. It's to write a spec that only allows motors that are close in performance to what we've been running since 2008.

I'm not for singling out stock boat guys. They need to be included and not placed at a separate table like the little kids at thanks giving dinner. Plus that just further divides the numbers. An SV or even a Revolt stocker class is fine but not IMO for the everyone.

Jay, we have a LOT of P limited boats in our club. Some with AQ speedo, some with PB, some with Seaking, some with Castle. Makes no difference. The motor is the week link. In fact, some of our classes were won by guys with AQ Revolts in stock form. I don't think my boats are slow and still those guy won so I think the speedos don't do a thing for me.

With the dim and weight limits I think that will still be the case.

I'm still worried about the max cost thing. I know we could "what if" this to death. I worry that some manufacturer will find some superior unobtainium winding material and then we all gotta have em. Rotor wrapped in Irukandji tentacles.

What is this world coming to...... you are making good sense! I like it when a thread is constructive.

[Darin Jordan]

Darin I respect you immensely, but not sure of the reason for a rush on this.

Ken... Just to be clear... I'm not rushing anything. Just discussing the issue.

[Darin Jordan]

Another thing that people might want to take note of...


That TP motor that so many of you keep saying is "on par" with the UL-1 motor...

Looking at it's specs, it's CLEARLY a superior motor. "Faster", if you will... Want a clue why? Look at it's mass...

[dethow]

Understood Terry... I defiantly misunderstood what you were running in that boat.

You guys all have much more experience with these different motors and my opinions were based on a mis-understanding of what I thought you were running in that. So I will bow down to your knowledge and trust whatever you guys do will be the best for the hobby. I just hate to see things get harder and harder for new people to get involved.

I guess I just see that a stronger motor option will lead to people pushing the props more and being able to run a 2000kv motor with a larger X447 or M545 prop. This will lead to a speed gain that a stock AQ can not achieve without burning up.

I understand you saying you don't want to put new guys at the kids table, but IMO these stronger limited motors will set new people as none competitive unless they too upgrade their motor, esc, connectors and prop. Are we possibly expecting to much from new guys??? Will new people want to make those kind of investments and learning process before they've even had a chance to have some fun in the hobby with a minimal investment? Yeah they can come out an put a stock AQ or PB on the water and race with the big dogs.... but loosing isn't fun.

[RandyatBBY]

Please add to the list leopard 3650 1840kv 4y

Will you be getting the motor with a 5MM shaft?

[T.S.Davis]

I understand you saying you don't want to put new guys at the kids table, but IMO these stronger limited motors will set new people as none competitive unless they too upgrade their motor, esc, connectors and prop. Are we possibly expecting to much from new guys??? Will new people want to make those kind of investments and learning process before they've even had a chance to have some fun in the hobby with a minimal investment? Yeah they can come out an put a stock AQ or PB on the water and race with the big dogs.... but loosing isn't fun.

This is what we're trying to avoid. We don't want to open the door to motors that make the existing stuff junk. It's a touchy thing that will require proof of concept.

[Doby]

Understood Terry... I defiantly misunderstood what you were running in that boat.

You guys all have much more experience with these different motors and my opinions were based on a mis-understanding of what I thought you were running in that. So I will bow down to your knowledge and trust whatever you guys do will be the best for the hobby. I just hate to see things get harder and harder for new people to get involved.

I guess I just see that a stronger motor option will lead to people pushing the props more and being able to run a 2000kv motor with a larger X447 or M545 prop. This will lead to a speed gain that a stock AQ can not achieve without burning up.

I understand you saying you don't want to put new guys at the kids table, but IMO these stronger limited motors will set new people as none competitive unless they too upgrade their motor, esc, connectors and prop. Are we possibly expecting to much from new guys??? Will new people want to make those kind of investments and learning process before they've even had a chance to have some fun in the hobby with a minimal investment? Yeah they can come out an put a stock AQ or PB on the water and race with the big dogs.... but loosing isn't fun.

You need to get away from the "stronger motor" mentality...just more motor options to supplement the current ones.
Lets face it, you could limit the kv to 1000 and people will still burn motors trying to get the max out of them. Max kv does not automatically mean you have the fastest boat and will win. If people constantly burn up the 2030s, then either check your setups or go with an 1800 kv motor.

[Ken Haines]

Ken... Just to be clear... I'm not rushing anything. Just discussing the issue.

Perfect.....I may have just misunderstood
Thanks

[Doby]

Yeah they can come out an put a stock AQ or PB on the water and race with the big dogs.... but loosing isn't fun.

FYI the Revolt I used to win the P-Limited Offshore at the Cup this year was bone stock (1800 kv) except for a dinged up m445.
FYI, The Motley Crew I used to win the P-Limited Cat at the Cup this year was bone stock (1800 kv) except for a 40 dollar HK ESC and a prop.

No need to spend a lot of money.....just time on the water.

You can be competitive right out of the box...but you need to tune your boats.

[Darin Jordan]

Perfect.....I may have just misunderstood
Thanks

No worries! It's a LOT to read through!

Just be assured... my moto, generally for all of life, is "Do it once, do it RIGHT!"... Or "Do it RIGHT, do it once"... Or something to that effect.