NAMBA P-Ltd Motor discussion

[darryl whitman]

oh ya P spec class , just drop it,

[T.S.Davis]

Doug, build your boats with easy in easy out motor mounts. You could swap out a motor for every heat. Don't know why I didn't think of it before.

[T.S.Davis]

Grim, the NAMBA rule book basically uses your spec as the rule. Have AQ change the rating on the updated motors to 10 amps. The 50 amp rating on the current motor is completely ignored by us racing tools so it won't matter if it's rated at 10. But then any new motors will have to be rated at 10.5 amps. No new motors ever. Unless they fake it. The rating doesn't meaning anything unless you're reading the book.

Not a dig on you Mike. Just pointing out the fallacy of the rule. The parameters for new offerings has to be ignored and simply be rated corrrctly. So I could have a motor produced that is capable of 200 amps continuous and rate it at 50 as long as my cost and weight are okay. That would be horse crap but the rule book allows it.

If you think about it, Proboat is in a great position. They could produce anything they wanted. Keep the price and weight right. Use the same model numbers and call it a generational change as long as they kept the rating the same. Although, I don't think they ever had an amp rating so it might be tough.

[properchopper]

Doug, build your boats with easy in easy out motor mounts. You could swap out a motor for every heat. Don't know why I didn't think of it before.

Way ahead of you, Sir. Here in SoCal we don't mess around with that silly "correct tuning stuff". We just run 'em, melt them, & quick-change them

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Dual pickups & ducted cooling fans sometime help

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Of course we all have one of these for standing at freeway off-ramps

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[TheShaughnessy]

So you think manufactures are just pulling a number out of a hat to rate the amp draw of a certain motor. I find that laughable. I'm sure they tested it to come up with tha number.

Brian has mentioned this before, it's not just amps that kill motors it's the heat build from pulling excessive amps that fries them. The AQ motor is rated at 50 amps and many of us have data logs that show them coping with that just fine. It also has a 5 sec 80 rating. So the motor ca handle the 80 amps if let's say its in an OPC where the motor has air and water cooling, dissipate the heat and the motor survives.

I really don't think the numbers are as bogus as you are suggesting. Find another motor with a 50 amp rating and Ill guarantee I can push it past that and keep it alive, not for 10 min at a time but it will do it.

[ray schrauwen]

So you think manufactures are just pulling a number out of a hat to rate the amp draw of a certain motor. I find that laughable. I'm sure they tested it to come up with tha number.

Brian has mentioned this before, it's not just amps that kill motors it's the heat build from pulling excessive amps that fries them. The AQ motor is rated at 50 amps and many of us have data logs that show them coping with that just fine. It also has a 5 sec 80 rating. So the motor ca handle the 80 amps if let's say its in an OPC where the motor has air and water cooling, dissipate the heat and the motor survives.

I really don't think the numbers are as bogus as you are suggesting. Find another motor with a 50 amp rating and Ill guarantee I can push it past that and keep it alive, not for 10 min at a time but it will do it.

$30.00 Worth a shot? :

KV: 2200
Max Current: 55A
Max Power: 1150W
Idle Current: 2.8A
Resistance: 0.017Ω
Shaft: Φ5.0mm
Weight: 260g
Suggested ESC: 70A
Cell count: 3~5SLipo
Bolt holes spacing: 25mm
Bolt thread: M3.0*4
Gold Connection: Φ4.0

[T.S.Davis]

The motors are regularly run at 80 amps despite the rating.

I'm not sure why people are struggling with what I'm saying. The rule book says +5% of AQ ' S rating. We all run over the rating. The rating means nothing. So a RTR company.....AQ, PB, TFL, Atomik could spit out an honest 50 amps and be useless or they can spit out a make believe 50 amp rating.

Point is the rule is BS.

[PatrickM]

The real point is that the rule is BS because the manufacturers' marketing departments opted to knowingly publish ratings that are BS. This marketing practice is very common in the hobby industry because of the lack of regulation... nobody really gives a crap because RC boating's market share is too small. Each manufacturers' reasons for overstatement or understatement are their own, but I'm sure can run from one-upping the competition to concerns over liability. AQ could very well be emulating (IMO, doubtful) something similar to the UL rating system for fuses, i.e.: A fuse will survive its rated value indefinitely. the same fuse will survive at 130% of it's rated value for a given period of time, 150% of its value for a shorter period of time, etc., etc., until it fails.

As a former manufacturer, I gained a lot of insight into the business practices of the hobby world.... it ain't all fun and games.... wait!, let me rephrase that... it ain't all fun, but there's a lot of games!

[Darin Jordan]

I don't think I've ever seen any published specs for any of the ProBoat or Dynamite motors. KV and motor dimensions only. Doesn't matter now either way.

It is of note that a bone stock Miss Geico pulls 60+ amps.... so I guess it's breaking the perceived ratings right out of the box.

Reminds me of the muscle car days when the factory ratings were used for insurance purposes. Yeah..... SURE a 455 Super Duty Pontiac only had 370hp... :)

[Grimracer]

We have a set of tests that are done on the motors to qualify the output. (its a standard test for all brushless motors we offer). The load parameters change and the temp and time metrics also change based on the mass and type of motor it is...poles and what not..


So... believe the specs or not.. your deal. THEY are NOT just a shot in the dark.

Im sure i have convinced nobody of this.... just letting those interested that testing is done.. the numbers come from this testing.

On we go..

Grim

[jfrancisco892]

A spec class always involves pushing the limiting factor to the edge of disaster. This will happen regardless of what motor is chosen.

[PatrickM]

Yes, on we go.....

Without a common set of parameters for testing, every manufacturer will continue to use (invent?) their own system for determining the advertised ratings of their products. I'm not singling out AQ, PB or any other manufacturer. It is an issue that has only become a problem with the NAMBA spec motors. The powers that be should not have used advertised specs to choose legal P-Limited power sources. Since I was not involved in the process, I can only surmise that factory specs were include only as means of simplification. This must have been accepted to avoid the necessity to extensively test each manufacturers offerings on an individual basis. We are only FE boat racers... unlike ROAR we do not have the manpower or facilities to offer product testing to the manufacturers or the ability to compile approved motor lists for the racers.

Are there any racers out there who are willing and have the ability to provide the means for this type of service?

If not, then there is no solution and those who don't agree with the status quo will simply have to continue on the path to divide the country regarding spec motors and opt for another "one manufacturer" spec.

BTW. I've never torched an AQ or PB motor and the local guys will tell you that my boats are usually the fastest in any given P-Limited class.... unfortunately, at this age, I simply can't drive worth a crap.

[T.S.Davis]

It is of note that a bone stock Miss Geico pulls 60+ amps.... so I guess it's breaking the perceived ratings right out of the box

Actually, if they had included the rating on the motors in their literature then 60 amps would have been the law.

As it was, we allowed the PB motors without ever knowing what they were rated for.

[DPeterson]

PatrickM - simply refreshing to know that there are those out there that can see through the fog and better yet speak about it.

For your question on post 133 call Tower Hobbies. I guarantee it will be a memorable experience.

[Shooter]

Dual pickups & ducted cooling fans sometime help

Is that a fan SHROUD????? ha ha ha!!! I remember you being a 'fan of the fan'. You've really evolved the concept!!!!