NAMBA P-Ltd Motor discussion

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  • T.S.Davis
    Fast Electric Addict!
    • Oct 2009
    • 6221

    #241
    Originally posted by rayzerdesigns
    I don't see any other mfgs doing that..
    There are no other manufacturers. Only one.

    Dave, after Mikes announcement I was prepared to let it die. What set me off again was Darin's 80% of failures are user related comments. That and your assumption that we aren't working on our setups. Like we go out twice a week and burn crap up every run and learn nothing. Not your words I know. But that's how you come across.

    Although I must confess that I am perplexed by the fact that a change is coming. If the problem is with some of us users................why bother making a change at all? Because Doug and I are displeased? That makes for bad math.

    I know a few people too. Our club has members. I probably know most of the racers you know too. Very few are willing to take on an issue of any sort. Ever draft a rule? Of course you have. Get lots of help? Not even close. Like you, I have to speak (type?) for them. Accept for me, I also have to defend their honor. The dialog has made them think they're not even smart enough to run the class. This power spec isn't supposed to require a degree in electrical engineering. Some will argue that but you and I know that to be true. It wasn't intended to be dominated by guys with data loggers and feeler gauges and extreme prop modification skills.

    AQ while not saying that there is/was a problem has through their actions shown that they agree that the motors could be made better. More reliable hopefully. Predictable even?

    Thank you Mike. I appreciate you and AQ responding in some way to our concerns instead of simply saying that you need to dig deeper or find another class.
    Noisy person

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    • T.S.Davis
      Fast Electric Addict!
      • Oct 2009
      • 6221

      #242
      Originally posted by rayzerdesigns
      .and im sure some people got bad motors..
      Some of us do feel that this is the case. No way all just some. Most if not all are willing to accept that these things happen. It's manufacturing. Of budget motors. From over seas. 3 strikes against us.

      What we weren't prepared for was for some (and not even AQ by the way) to insult our intelligence in the process.
      Noisy person

      Comment

      • PatrickM
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2007
        • 151

        #243
        Originally posted by madmikepags
        Been racing cars for 25+ years and even "handout" motors are BS. I was sponsored by one of the "Big" companies for a while and when we went to races that were "handout" motors, there was a seperate box of "handout" motors for the team drivers, and they always had 10-15% more power than the other guys "handout" motors.
        Started 1/10th asphalt oval racing in 1985 after playing with the 12th scale electric cars for a few years. I can attest to Pags' experiences... When handout stock motors were in vogue at some NORRCA and ROAR races, somehow, the motors that I received dynoed much lower than some of the sponsored guys handouts. Guess that I just wasn't up on the proper tweaks......

        Some of my earlier posts regarding the advertised claims of manufacturers can be partially verified by this type of common place incident. It gives insight to the marketing mentality rampant in the hobby industry.

        Could cite many more personal experiences, but I'm sure that there is no need..........
        Last edited by PatrickM; 09-11-2014, 07:50 PM.

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        • RandyatBBY
          Fast Electric Addict!
          • Sep 2007
          • 3915

          #244
          Originally posted by PatrickM
          Damn Randy!.... when did you return to the political arena?

          Remember the primary rule in RC boating... STAY AWAY FROM THE GRAY!!!!!
          I am so dang grey (my hair) that is impossable. Can you find me?
          d9 dinner.jpg
          Randy
          For ABS, Fiberglass, Carbon hulls and Stainless hardware
          BBY Racing

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          • T.S.Davis
            Fast Electric Addict!
            • Oct 2009
            • 6221

            #245
            Who wouldn't vote for the yeti?
            Noisy person

            Comment

            • LuckyDuc
              Team Ducati Racing
              • Dec 2008
              • 989

              #246
              FWIW. I've had fun with this class from 2009 - 2013. 2014... Not so much. No matter what the winds of change brings, I hope the fun level returns. I need some reinvigoration, and so does our local race program.

              Comment

              • D. Newland
                Fast Electric Addict!
                • Dec 2007
                • 1030

                #247
                Originally posted by T.S.Davis
                ...
                Although I must confess that I am perplexed by the fact that a change is coming. If the problem is with some of us users................why bother making a change at all? Because Doug and I are displeased? That makes for bad math...
                Good point. It would be interesting to know the timeline from when the discussion was had @ Aquacraft about improving the motors to retail delivery of the motors. We may never know the answer, but racers have been burning UL-1 wires for over 3 seasons now. Remember Heller's infamous "Blueprinting UL-1 Wires" thread? That was early '12, maybe even late '11. I bet it's taken longer than you think.

                Comment

                • LuckyDuc
                  Team Ducati Racing
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 989

                  #248
                  AQ is doing what they can. The problem is that there are no competitive options on the list besides them at the moment. No competition on the manufacturers part leads to the situation we find ourselves in today. it's really no one's fault. $h1t happens. Where do we go from here IS the question.

                  Comment

                  • DPeterson
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 842

                    #249
                    there was a seperate box of "handout" motors for the team drivers, and they always had 10-15% more power than the other guys "handout" motors.
                    When handout stock motors were in vogue at some NORRCA and ROAR races, somehow, the motors that I received dynoed much lower than some of the sponsored guys handouts.
                    As far as I am concerned - there is absolutely no place in this toy boat racing hobby for this. And it seems it is still taking place to some degree. This is pathetic. If there are those of you out there that are OK with this, I pitty you. I recommend you go and find a life. No way I am going to travel around the country to race and put up with this crap.

                    Done with this thread.
                    Doug Peterson
                    IMPBA 19993
                    www.badgerboaters.com

                    Comment

                    • rayzerdesigns
                      Fast Electric Addict!
                      • Dec 2013
                      • 1228

                      #250
                      doug..pm sent..also as mike stated..and myself..if someone has the means to buy a bunch of motors..i don't care what kind or manufacturer..there will be better ones and wose ones..its just the nature of an electric motor..one stator can have waaay less resistance than the other..and lets not even talk about how two or 20 identical rotors will vary in strength by a huge margin..i will show you if you come to az..I just tested my 2 2030s..let me just say that the difference in resistance is almost a whole point..and the rpms on bench testing are almost 2700 rpms..im interested to see how these tp motors stack up..and if you want to test some on bench I would be happy also

                      Comment

                      • T.S.Davis
                        Fast Electric Addict!
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 6221

                        #251
                        Originally posted by DPeterson
                        As far as I am concerned - there is absolutely no place in this toy boat racing hobby for this. And it seems it is still taking place to some degree. This is pathetic. If there are those of you out there that are OK with this, I pitty you. I recommend you go and find a life. No way I am going to travel around the country to race and put up with this crap..
                        Off topic but this thread is a disaster anyway.

                        Doug, remember your beloved LSH class with the 700 motors? Back then the rumor was that Fine tested every SS1 motor from a pallet to find the strongest of the bunch for distribution to the key guys he thought had the best shot at winning with his motors. Like I said though, it was a rumor. Was it true? I don't think so. I suspect I know the source of that rumor but I don't think there was any proof of it. Many don't like the Fines but honestly I don't think those guys had the technical expertise back then to even do that.

                        Guys that win will be accused of cheating. Darin was right about that.
                        Noisy person

                        Comment

                        • Peter A
                          Fast Electric Addict!
                          • Sep 2012
                          • 1486

                          #252
                          Guys that win will be accused of cheating. Darin was right about that.
                          Tall poppy syndrome! Come and live in NZ and you get used to that, this is also the land of short poppies!
                          NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
                          2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
                          BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

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                          • Whitey
                            Junior Member
                            • Feb 2013
                            • 24

                            #253
                            Originally posted by T.S.Davis
                            Off topic but this thread is a disaster anyway.

                            Doug, remember your beloved LSH class with the 700 motors? Back then the rumor was that Fine tested every SS1 motor from a pallet to find the strongest of the bunch for distribution to the key guys he thought had the best shot at winning with his motors. Like I said though, it was a rumor. Was it true? I don't think so. I suspect I know the source of that rumor but I don't think there was any proof of it. Many don't like the Fines but honestly I don't think those guys had the technical expertise back then to even do that.

                            Guys that win will be accused of cheating. Darin was right about that.

                            The technical expertise needed to determine which motor of the same model is better, is pretty low level expertise.

                            Any motor becomes a generator when you spin the rotor, hold the can stationary, and tap the leads.

                            Chuck the shaft into drill press, connect a multimeter set for VDC to the leads, start the drill press while holding the can stationary, and the VDC output of the motor shows its capability. If you have multiple motors of the same model, do the same check and record the VDC out. As long as the rotors were spun at the same RPM, the motor with the highest output is the best motor of the lot.

                            Same goes for a brushless motor, only the meter must be set to VAC. You have (4) 2030s. Connect each to a constant RPM drive (drill press), hold the can stationary, connect the meter to any two leads. Run 'em and record the reading. The 2030 with highest VAC output is the best 2030.

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                            • ray schrauwen
                              Fast Electric Addict!
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 9471

                              #254
                              I'll give that a go. Might use a flex shaft and collet though.
                              Nortavlag Bulc

                              Comment

                              • Doug Smock
                                Moderator
                                • Apr 2007
                                • 5272

                                #255
                                Deleted post. Apparently I missed something.
                                MODEL BOAT RACER
                                IMPBA President
                                District 13 Director 2011- present
                                IMPBA National Records Director 2009-2019
                                IMPBA 19887L CD
                                NAMBA 1169

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