NAMBA P-Ltd Motor discussion

[Namba328]

My initial thoughts on this are going to go completely against popular opinion (which just means that a lot of people THINK something... doesn't mean it's correct)...

Not enough prop.

It's pretty amazing how amps drop and things cool down when you actually get the boat running efficiently.

Either way, it doesn't sound like this is a "motor quality" issue. I'd suggest that at least 80% of these failures people are having aren't. But, unless you are running data logging and can review the conditions, I'm pretty sure there won't be any convincing the majority out there of this.

What prop would you recommend me run on this boat? My setup will be a 2030 and 60amp seaking and turnigy nanotech 4s 45-90c 5000mah lipos. The boat weighs (on a digital fish scale) RTR 3lb 9oz.

[RandyatBBY]

I was there at the race how tom described it is how it happened. Tommy knows boats this was clearly a motor ESC failure. Not operator error.
I would start with a 42X55. when I get to the shop I will look at prop chart.

If you can afford the 120 I would recommend it. Matt had a graft of the run he had and was pulling 107 amps at times.

[tlandauer]

Just for my curiosity, what is the sequence? which part had gone bad first? ( may be I didn't read correctly and missed that part).

[T.S.Davis]

None of these motors should be this temperamental. We've been told "start small, check heat, little bit more, check heat, microscopic changes, check heat, make sure the boat is running free". Now guys have to not only go conservative on props but be aggressive enough or......fr'shizzle?

How would a new guy get into this class? Sounds like the setups are too finicky for average humans. I sure hope the new version of these is more forgiving.

My son grabbed the wrong prop out of our box the other day. The sprint prop instead of the offshore prop. 3mm difference. Motor came in at 128 degrees after 11 laps. Not super hot but that tell tale whisp of smoke came out of the hatch. It's surely baked. User error. Darin's 80%. Only the 3rd run on the motor too. Our fault but bummer. Especially because we race this weekend and know it's going to fail. Not might fail. Will fail........just don't know when. He'll go back to his offshore prop but it's likely too late.

[T.S.Davis]

Tommy, a Seaking120 is a good option if you're going to buy a fresh speedo. Cost about the same as a AQ.

Turnigy sells one that is the same thing.

[ezhitz]

I wonder if you where to restrict the C rating on the packs to 30-35 c if that would help. I know my sons motor only ever ran above a 100 f was when he tried a 65c dinogy.
But then again there could be just as many motors burning up on the lower c ratings anyway.

[ray schrauwen]

An M440 3 blade works well in my lsh...

[ray schrauwen]

UP there... I d/t'd my 440 3 blade, runs very nice. Not super fast but, runs very stable.

Darin this was the first time out with this boat so I wanted to put something that was smaller but not to small and currently on my p-ltd sport ive been running either a x442 that's cupped up or a x440/3 that been cupped and haven't had any issues with amps or overheating. I think that this esc was just done. And 2 it lost radio turned left and drove itself into this nice dry bush along the shoreline. So I believe the esc shorted out before it shorted out the motor.

[Namba328]

Tommy, a Seaking120 is a good option if you're going to buy a fresh speedo. Cost about the same as a AQ.

Turnigy sells one that is the same thing.

Hmmmm my dad does have one maybe ill use his for this next race and order me one. His has been completely sprayed with conformable spray and waterproofed that way and it has a etti cap bank. That should be ok correct?

[tlandauer]

Just for my curiosity, what is the sequence? which part had gone bad first? ( may be I didn't read correctly and missed that part).

I meant did the motor took out the ESC or vice versa?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk 2

[Namba328]

Im going to make a new thread about prop choices for a p-ltd rigger that way Im not cluttering up this thread. Thanks for the insight everyone. I just figured I'd show my recent problem with the aquacraft 2nd gen motor and esc. The new motor is a 2nd gen but its had only one lap run time put on it. It was in a brand new boat that I build and I broke a brand new cable after one lap in open water so its been on the shelf ever since. So ill put it with a hrc cooling can and a seaking 120amp esc in the rigger for the next race on the 20-21. But ill make a new thread asking for suggestions for props. Thanks again

[RandyatBBY]

Well James Davis is running a FE30, 2030, UL-1 ESC, 4S1P and a 1445 prop twice he has got one run or less both the motor and the ESC went out. It happened this weekend too. In my SS30 I run the 2030, UL-1 ESC, 4S1P and a H10 prop My motors and ESC's are about 3 years old no problems at all. The 220 prop is 1.72 dia.X2.5 pitch, the H-10 is 1.825 diaX3. pitch and the 1445 is 1.77 diaX2.478 pitch. The only time I have seen a Motor go out from too small of size I was running a Y636 and that happend at the end of the run. I say these Motors and ESC should be warranted for those two guys.

[T.S.Davis]

. That should be ok correct?

Yep. I have been using the 120. I set the timing at 7.5 degrees on 2030's. Don't want to push it.

If we limited C rating it would be no time at all before the C rating we chose would no longer be available. Especially with the ratings on some cells being a farce.

Randy, what you'll run into is some that didn't see the boat run like you did asking questions like Rosanne Rosanna Danna "was it running wet, was the stuffing tube perfectly aligned, does the flex spin freely, was the stub shaft hanging up, was the prop balanced, was the shaft greased (too little, too much, too thick, too thin), what kind of connectors, how were they soldered, is there a burr on the prop, is it cupped, is it too big, is it too small, is there a piece of silicone on the stuff tube to keep water out that's too tight, is there debris in the water pickup, is it flowing, how big is your water line, did you pass gas in Walter Cronkite's office?" Anything and everything but a motor issue.

Not AQ necessarily. Mike isn't like that in my experience.

There is a strong desire for some to lump failures into user error. Sure. Absolutely user errors happen. My kid injured one over the weekend. Proof. 80% though? Not buying it.

[Darin Jordan]

None of these motors should be this temperamental. We've been told "start small, check heat, little bit more, check heat, microscopic changes, check heat, make sure the boat is running free". Now guys have to not only go conservative on props but be aggressive enough or......fr'shizzle?

How would a new guy get into this class? Sounds like the setups are too finicky for average humans. I sure hope the new version of these is more forgiving.

My son grabbed the wrong prop out of our box the other day. The sprint prop instead of the offshore prop. 3mm difference. Motor came in at 128 degrees after 11 laps. Not super hot but that tell tale whisp of smoke came out of the hatch. It's surely baked. User error. Darin's 80%. Only the 3rd run on the motor too. Our fault but bummer. Especially because we race this weekend and know it's going to fail. Not might fail. Will fail........just don't know when. He'll go back to his offshore prop but it's likely too late.

Terry... 4-Laps isn't "starting small"...

Rule of thumbs have been thrown out the window. Did anyone bother running two-laps then checking temps?

You are pulling well over the 60A maximum of the AQ controller, but you blame the motor??

I'm NOT saying it's not the motor, but even Tommy suggested that the ESC failed first. No one really knows, because everyone seems to read something on an forum, try to duplicate it, then gets upset when it doesn't work for them. Meanwhile, NONE of them had out the feeler gauges and setup boards and took the time to REALLY understand how many degrees AoA their right and left sponsons were, or what their strut angle truly was, etc... I suggest that my 80% of failures I mentioned are do to THESE facts...

The motors are NOT temperamental... not for the most part, anyhow. OF COURSE some will have problems. YES manufacturing "tolerances" vary. YES RTR suppliers quality can sometimes suffer. BUT, that is NOT the majority of the problem...

What has happened, however, is that we STARTED P-LTD putting these systems into our old 8-cell and 12-cell hulls (24" to 27" or so), and now we've pushed them and pushed them and pushed them into FE30's (no lift, ass-dragging, power robbing tanks), Delta-Force 29's or 33's, 30"+ former P-Open Hydros, 35"+ 1/10th Scales, etc... and we expect them NOT to be running at their very limit? All because SOME of us have been able to make setups like that work?

EVERY class has the opportunity to push the power systems beyond their limits. What masks that in our current class structure to a great degree are the length limits. Otherwise, we'd have 40" P-Open Monos, pushing their 1521's or 1527's, or beyond, right to their max limits, and we'd be seeing those fail as well.

Tommy, in response to your request for a prop recommendation, I'm sorry, but I no longer feel it's responsible for me to recommend such things in most cases. As I've found, over the years, this is a setup by setup deal, and there is no way I can recommend something that I know will work on your setup. I only race. I don't go "play", so what I use works on my boats, under race conditions, and I've never tried them beyond that. The best I can do is recommend that you study one of the many Prop tweaking guides out there and understand how to work your own, then build on that. Otherwise, I'm just risking you getting pissed at me because your boat burned up running my recommended prop. OR, I get bashed for recommending something that pushes your setup well beyond the "50-Amp" rating for the motor...

Also, NONE of my props that work are simply "sharpened and balanced"... ALL of them have a tweak or a cut or a bend or SOMETHING that has been done to them to make them work. The very limited exception to this is the ABC 42x55 that I've been running recently on my P-LTD OPC Flynn Dragon... that one is as bone stock as the day the Grim handed it to us at the 2007 NATs for the Spec-SV27 class...

[properchopper]

One month ago today I bought a fresh AQ 2030 for my Drifter S to attempt to up my P-Ltd Cat record at the NAMBA SAW. Roughly eight passes ; temp on the engine never over @ 115 deg F. Next to last run boat stopped ten feet off the beach. Brought it in ; seemed ok. Next, ran @ 100 feet and quit. AQ 60A esc SMOKED. It was ancient so no big mystery I thought. Put motor in FE30 for PLSH last Saturday. Ten feet off beach in practice it quit. Replaced esc, Tx/Rx, exchanged batteries. Same crap only it happened on the first heat mill. Put in older spare motor & raced last three heats.

This relatively new AQ2030 ( seems clean, no smell, no browned stator wires just inside endbell) on the way to Hobby Services.

Last P-Ltd Cat race of the season in 2 weeks ; down to one motor & one spare backup. Not pleased with this situation, but........

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