Blueprinting UL-1 Motor Wires

[lohring]

"The motors shall be used as shipped from the manufacturer, with the
exception of creating a drive shaft flat spot, adding water cooling, and
allowing the motor to be connected to the ESC by any means."

That's from the latest version of the NAMBA electric rules. I would think "any means" allows changes to the insulation as well as the connectors.

Lohring Miller

[Doby]

Based on the latest "rule" book on NAMBA's web site....only brushed motors are allowed for P Spec classes (unless they have changes hidden somewhere on the web site, but as this is the latest version they have linked to, it must be right).... Everyone running brushless motors are breaking the rules!

They do make mention of brushless motors in the 1/10 scale section...

"Motor Specifications
(a) Power in this class shall be limited to a single HIMAX
HB3630-1500, BLACKJACK A3630-1500 or AQUACRAFT
36/56 (commonly referred to as SV27).
(b) No modifications may be made to the motor. Except for normal
wear, drive flats or keys, electrical connectors and water
cooling, it must be run as shipped from the manufacturer.
(c) Power Limits: 10.1 to 15 Volts nominal, any chemistry.
Maximum of 2 packs in parallel. Maximum total capacity shall....."

subsection b is interesting as it mentions "wear" but doesn't define what it is...can it be preventive, like the insulation on the wires?? Who knows..It makes sense that it would cover that as being OK.

[Doby]

IMPBA rule book says even less.


So brushless motors and the amount of "blueprinting" that can be done to them is obviously up to the individual clubs.

Now before anybody jumps on me about there being more "rules" elsewhere on the web pages ("Roostertails" etc..) for the two organizations...I am looking at the rule books that they both currently link to on their home pages...as this is where anyone starting out to get some basic information would obviously look at.

[T.S.Davis]

First of all "hidden"?
Can we please think before we post. For what possible purpose?

Second, there is/was no limited spec power parameters until they were passed 5-11-11. I think that was the date at least. Click on NEWS on the NAMBA website and it's there. I don't believe it's been incorporated into the base document. SOP for our hobby. IMPBA's rule book hasn't been updated since 1974 or some such lunacy. You can find their FE rules in a 2008 edition of the Roostertail. No P Spec if I remember correctly.

As for the insulation......it's not a addressed. I do have an opinion though. I think that it's chicken turds for anyone to object to it. Wish I had thought of it earlier

[Chilli]

I have added additional heat shrink tubing to my motor leads for 3 years now. I do this right after I solder new 5.5 bullet connectors on, and just cut the heat shrink long enough to cover the bullet and to extend into the end bell. It is quite easy to nick the OEM insulation and tear a hole in it. This is more of a general maintenance item IMHO. Worn spots can also develop quite easily on the insulation in out board applications too. I wouldn't worry too much about this violating the current rule set for P-Ltd in NAMBA.

Sean,

For club and district races, I wouldnt worry too much about it either. But if you take the time and effort to run record trials in these classes which Tony does, it makes a tremendous difference.

Dispite everyone's interpretation of the rules, there is only one person who's opinion means anything and thats the NAMBA FE Director.

[Doby]

First of all "hidden"?
Can we please think before we post. For what possible purpose?

Second, there is/was no limited spec power parameters until they were passed 5-11-11. I think that was the date at least. Click on NEWS on the NAMBA website and it's there. I don't believe it's been incorporated into the base document. SOP for our hobby. IMPBA's rule book hasn't been updated since 1974 or some such lunacy. You can find their FE rules in a 2008 edition of the Roostertail. No P Spec if I remember correctly.

As for the insulation......it's not a addressed. I do have an opinion though. I think that it's chicken turds for anyone to object to it. Wish I had thought of it earlier

Thanks Terry;

You just confirmed my point....these things aren't in the current rule books and if you don't know where to look for it, its not easily found.

[RandyatBBY]

If the guys are that up tight then we will have hand out motors and props, Other wise be cool. I will not stress over little bull s#@^. never more.

[Doug Smock]

[CHIEFY_44]

Like I said earlier spec classes I thought were to bring more people into our hobby cheaply as to run a full blown sport boat u fork out big $$ to build and even more to keep the thing going, I really think doing something like this should not be a problem all people are doing is preventing a burn out in turn saving money, not everyone can afford to carry 2 or 3 spare. If they want to be picky then yeah hand out motors/props could be the way to go but its going to be more work policing that choice, dont think officals will want the extra load.

[DPeterson]

I'll race ya Tony! You can put the shrink tube any where you would like. I find it hard to comprehend that shrink tube will give someone a performance advantage.

With that said, 2 races ago I lost a very good esc (yge) due to my cooling tube coming off and I ran the entire race with no cooling. Took out the esc and the motor. This esc and motor combo has race proven reliability for 3 years. My only esc back up was a Hydra 240. Put the Hydra in for the next race and burnt 2 motors right where the wires enter the end bell. Come to find out the timing was too far advanced on the Hydra for the UL1 motor. Finally put the timing down to normal and everything is fine. Anyway besides the motor wires shorting out, the windings also took a beating.

So to me replacing the shrink tube is going to be more of a feel good thing than a performance fix or a preventative measure. I just got 4 UL1 motors prepped for my spare parts box. Plugs only - no shrink. Keep your esc timing calm, keep your motors cool, watch your run times, run the right prop and have fun.

Doug

[egneg]

In IMPBA district 12 not just the motors but the esc's are spec'ed as well - so it would be motors, esc's, and props! I think this could easily be handled at the district level just as the current FE rules are.

Wait a minute, in the March 2010 Roostertails under district 12 reports the FE rules state that any esc can be used. Is there a newer version in print somewhere? I will have to check with the district 12 FE Director.

[properchopper]

I'll race ya Tony! You can put the shrink tube any where you would like. I find it hard to comprehend that shrink tube will give someone a performance advantage.

With that said, 2 races ago I lost a very good esc (yge) due to my cooling tube coming off and I ran the entire race with no cooling. Took out the esc and the motor. This esc and motor combo has race proven reliability for 3 years. My only esc back up was a Hydra 240. Put the Hydra in for the next race and burnt 2 motors right where the wires enter the end bell. Come to find out the timing was too far advanced on the Hydra for the UL1 motor. Finally put the timing down to normal and everything is fine. Anyway besides the motor wires shorting out, the windings also took a beating.

So to me replacing the shrink tube is going to be more of a feel good thing than a performance fix or a preventative measure. I just got 4 UL1 motors prepped for my spare parts box. Plugs only - no shrink. Keep your esc timing calm, keep your motors cool, watch your run times, run the right prop and have fun.

Doug

See Ya' in AZ, Bro !

[Doug Smock]

In IMPBA district 12 not just the motors but the esc's are spec'ed as well - so it would be motors, esc's, and props! I think this could easily be handled at the district level just as the current FE rules are.

Wait a minute, in the March 2010 Roostertails under district 12 reports the FE rules state that any esc can be used. Is there a newer version in print somewhere? I will have to check with the district 12 FE Director.

http://impba.net/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=153&func=view&catid=17&id=65

D.
PS LOL Mr.P.

[Chilli]

In IMPBA district 12 not just the motors but the esc's are spec'ed as well - so it would be motors, esc's, and props! I think this could easily be handled at the district level just as the current FE rules are.

Wait a minute, in the March 2010 Roostertails under district 12 reports the FE rules state that any esc can be used. Is there a newer version in print somewhere? I will have to check with the district 12 FE Director.

The rules posted in the Roostertails was my original proposal. Don posted it by accident instead of the final draft. No biggie. They were adjusted after the district meeting and the correct version is in the link Doug provided.

The prop "parity rule" issue has only been in play in the B/P Mono class where the P motors can be much more powerful than "B" nitro motors. This year we added a Open FE mono and Open FE hydro class. So anyone that does not want to run under the nitro parity rules or spec rules can run what they want.

If anyone wants to discuss this any further, we can start another thread.

[D. Newland]

...

Dispite everyone's interpretation of the rules, there is only one person who's opinion means anything and thats the NAMBA FE Director.

Not really. Randy has it right. The CD makes the call with items like this, typically when faced with a protest. However, I have been called from time to time to help figure stuff like this out, and since I wrote this particular section of the P-Ltd rule, I'm sure I'd get a phone call if this was called into question.

But I must say, please have some perspective with this. I just got back from Justin Hill's funeral and that guy had more perspective with this hobby than anyone I know.

The P-Ltd NAMBA Rules are for NAMBA sanctioned events and Lohring posted the wording above. They state that the motor must be run as shipped from the manufacturer, with exeptions for flat spot, water cooling and connecting it to the ESC.

As Dick Crowe once said, "stay out of the grey". You say you're doing this to make the motor more reliable. Your opponent says you're doing it to push the motor harder. Whether you like it or not, you are entering the grey, which means a potential protest.

You're either running the motor as shipped from the manfacturer...or you're not. It's that simple. Most of you don't know Justin Hill...but if you've read anything on the boards about him...what do you think he would do in this case?

And that is as specific as I'm going to get on this topic. If you want me to get more specific, get out to a NAMBA sanctioned race and get protested. You just may learn at that time where I stand on this...assuming the CD needs my help.