Blueprinting UL-1 Motor Wires

[Doug Smock]

Fair to say then that education also takes care of number 5.

Well...............

I'll make it up there one of these days Doug. I'd like to meet all of you guys!!
Have a great weekend!
Doug

[line6]

Tony. This is a great idea im glad it was posted for everyone to see. I have lost one UL1 motor to this exact issue about two years ago. sense then i have been putting the extra shrink on and haven't had a failure sense.. good job for bring it to everyone's attention

Jason Sims

[properchopper]

Tony. This is a great idea im glad it was posted for everyone to see. I have lost one UL1 motor to this exact issue about two years ago. sense then i have been putting the extra shrink on and haven't had a failure sense.. good job for bring it to everyone's attention
Jason Sims

No prob, Jason, 'tho a bit of a kerfuffle resulted, and grew into somewhat of a granfalloon.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Am I missing something? Not commenting on where this fits in with the namba rules. But, You can put all the insulation you want around a single wire, if the wire gets hot enough this is not going to stop the actual wire coating from burning up. And if it does, the individual strands of that single wire will then touch and cause resistance and a junk motor.

[properchopper]

Am I missing something? Not commenting on where this fits in with the namba rules. But, You can put all the insulation you want around a single wire, if the wire gets hot enough this is not going to stop the actual wire coating from burning up. And if it does, the individual strands of that single wire will then touch and cause resistance and a junk motor.

True, and that's what causes stator failure. Thing is, it seems that the outer insulation gets degraded at a lower temp than the wire coating and that's all my mod was intended to prevent. At least that's the theory.

[Boaterguy]

Am I missing something? Not commenting on where this fits in with the namba rules. But, You can put all the insulation you want around a single wire, if the wire gets hot enough this is not going to stop the actual wire coating from burning up. And if it does, the individual strands of that single wire will then touch and cause resistance and a junk motor.

Aren't the individual strands touching inside the wire anyways? how would it cause resistance if they touch?

[line6]

Am I missing something? Not commenting on where this fits in with the namba rules. But, You can put all the insulation you want around a single wire, if the wire gets hot enough this is not going to stop the actual wire coating from burning up. And if it does, the individual strands of that single wire will then touch and cause resistance and a junk motor.

Steven in my case it failed simply from taking the battery in and out and having to move the wires. it just wore a hole over time.

Jason Sims

[Doug Smock]

Aren't the individual strands touching inside the wire anyways? how would it cause resistance if they touch?

No sir, they are coated in a varnish. http://www.harmanbawa.com/
I believe what Steven is referring to is the resistance increasing in the wire strands as they degrade while they burn. When you finally burn through the varnish what you have is a "short" ( line to line or line(s)) to ground (motor can) until it "opens" or is de-energized. (Read de solder connectors or burns the control)
Like Jason said, his failure was fatigue related and is why I took this precaution on my O/B motor.
Doug

[Boaterguy]

I though you meant inside the wires not inside the coils, I understand

[Greg Schweers]

Here's my take on this: Last year I didn't have any motor failures (hydro, tunnel, rigger).
The first race this year, 3rd heat of P-Hydro - motor failure, wires burnt coming out of the motor. 3rd heat of rigger - exact same thing. Replaced motors, did the shrink-wrap, and separated wires.
Next race (2 weeks later), 3rd heat P-Hydro - motor quits. 3rd heat rigger - same thing (and the wires individually melted on both motors).
Then I ordered 4 new motors (2 for spares). Backed the timing off from 14 to 10 degrees on both boats. Funny thing, the tunnel is still at 14 degrees to this day - and I haven't had any problems. I wonder if the wires are being air cooled. (18 races on the original motor and a 447 prop, back-cut and tips rounded.)
On the rigger, I ran a 1650 that was pitched to 4.6" and I de-pitched it back to 3.8". So far I have over 8 races on this setup.
Conclusion: I don't think it helps either way. I think it's more critical watching timing and prop.

[Chilli]

You know, Greg has been the first person on this thread to put some numbers on the board and IMO I think he hit the nail on the head. For those that have had multiple failures, I'd like to know typically at what temperature the motors are coming in at after a heat? I had a UL1 motor fail this season because It was run too hard. My temps were pushing 150 and it lasted about a dozen heats before it finally toasted. I knew it was going to fail, but I just wanted to see how long it would last. No failures in D13 in a couple years and only one failure in my district in two years. I think if these motors were such pieces of crap, we would be screaming bloddy murder looking for a replacement for the spec classes. Instead they are bought by the bunch. So whats the real story? Are these motors considered disposable because they are cheap? Are they truly pieces of crap or are we just pushing them too hard?

[LuckyDuc]

I had a UL1 motor fail this season because It was run too hard. My temps were pushing 150 and it lasted about a dozen heats before it finally toasted.

150 degrees F is too hot for a UL-1 motor. I don’t push my motors over 120 degrees measured on the shaft.

I knew it was going to fail, but I just wanted to see how long it would last.

If you knew that it was going to fail why did you keep running it? I assume you were sport boating and not racing with this power system. Racing a boat with a known point of failure in your power system could cause you to lose more than just your motor. It could also take out your ESC, packs, and severely burn your hull.

So whats the real story? Are these motors considered disposable because they are cheap? Are they truly pieces of crap or are we just pushing them too hard?

Sounds like you are suggesting that AQ raise their prices. Gee thanks.
They are crap compared to Neu and Lehner motors… So I guess that it depends on your perspective. Are people pushing them too hard? I’m sure some are. Does it surprise you that some would push their equipment to the limits in the pursuit of racing “Success?” Learning limits is part of racing too. Hopefully newbs have a good FE mentors helping them along the way.

[Doug Smock]

Those temps are fine, in fact you should prop up as they like to run in the 160-170 range.

My FE-30 with the UL-1 motor runs the fastest with an m445 or a Grim 42x66. Both will draw an average 90-100 amps so watch the ESC.

How many more examples do ya want Mike??

LMAO Where is Lamb Chop????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNTxr2NJHa0&feature=player_detailpage

[TheShaughnessy]

wanted to add my name to the list of people who have had ul1 motors fail because the insulation on the wires was damaged. First one happened down in camarrillo on a motor i had been running for a while. Made it through the heats, or the one that i managed not to get caught on a buoy or flip. Decided to run after the race and the boat died. Opened her up to find the insulation on all the wires was pretty much gone. This is when Tony told me i should do his mod. I was going to follow his advice on another ul1 motor i just got but impatience got the best of me and I ran without the mod. After i pulled another dead boat out of the water i looked straight to the wire insulation, sure enough it had melted where they enter the endbell, right were the black shrink holds all three wires together. Insulation was melted and the wires were touching. I have yet to send this motor back to see if aq will warranty it as i see this as manufacture defect.

First motor burnt in a FE converted vegas with a 120 speedo and m445 prop. Second was in a MG with the same electronics and prop. When using the data logger i have i recorded am peaks up to 105 but have no idea what they were/are during a constant wot run. Maybe i'm over propped (aren't there a few of us running the m445 on this motor?) or maybe the weather was hotter on these days then when i was running before with no issues. I think i read in another thread Doby said he is using a 54 mm prop with this motor?

As far as the rule goes. Im gonna worry about finishing more then one heat before that will be a concern of mine. I run a 120 amp speedo not because i think it will make me go faster but because they are available for less then one would pay for a 60 amp aq controller. Just change the timing from 15 and ur good to go.

[HydroMike]

Is this legal for NAMBA Spec Classes??

I hope its legal for IMPBA lol