Spartan, tear it down to build it up

[JPriami]

With my leopard 4082, t-180 & m645 and the stock flex cable and strut. when i hit LVC and brought the boat back. I was putting 5150mah and maybe a little more back in my 5000mah packs. But now with the piano wire drive and new strut. I have way less resistance. and when I hit LVC and come back in. I charge my packs and they are just at 4900mah put back in or so but not over 5000mah at all. so I know from the motor back its nothing but a problematic drive line for sure.

[martin]

Isnt it bad for the lipo to take them down to more than 80%, So theirs 20% left in them ie a 5000mah shouldnt take more than 4000mah when recharged. As i have the same problem on some of my packs where theirs only around 10% left in them after lvc cuts in. Is this a sign of lipo needs replacing. Thanks.

[Brushless55]

Isnt it bad for the lipo to take them down to more than 80%, So theirs 20% left in them ie a 5000mah shouldnt take more than 4000mah when recharged. As i have the same problem on some of my packs where theirs only around 10% left in them after lvc cuts in. Is this a sign of lipo needs replacing. Thanks.

if you get into the habit of taking them down to 20% your packs will have a longer shelf life then taking them down more

[martin]

Thanks Brushless55,Any idea how many charges you should expect from lipos providing nothing bad happens to them. Also i believe they reach a peak after a certain amount of charges, Any idea how long that peak lasts before the they slowly go down & maximum performance of the boat is affected. Thanks

[Brushless55]

Thanks Brushless55,Any idea how many charges you should expect from lipos providing nothing bad happens to them. Also i believe they reach a peak after a certain amount of charges, Any idea how long that peak lasts before the they slowly go down & maximum performance of the boat is affected. Thanks

pack life I would think could go beyond 300 cycles
as for the peak

[TrailblazerSS]

Can someone help find where Traxxas claims the boat should run for 20min on 6S?

[Brushless55]

Can someone help find where Traxxas claims the boat should run for 20min on 6S?

on there forums, but good chance they deleted it

[GeoVW72]

TrailblazerSS: I think that was on their site before, they had problems and many posts/threads were lost. regardless it was a rumor and the fact is it won't run for 4 min out of the box on 6s without thermaling or blowing up.

ambient 30*f

Run#1 2x 2s
esc: 54* motor: 78*
max amp: 48 speed: 27mph
YT vid

Run #2 2x 3s
esc: 77* motor: 100*
amp: 96 speed: 44
YT vid

Run #3 2x 3s
amp: 101 speed: 45
esc: 79* motor: 100*
YT vid

keeping with the "Traxxas knows best" theme and while I had the MG rudder on it, modded the stock one.

mounted in the stock location

ambient: 32*

Run#1 2x2s
esc: 56* motor: 79*
amp: 49 speed: 27

Run#2 2x 3s
esc: 77* motor: 100*
amp: 92* speed: 44*

Run#3 2x 3s
esc: 79* motor: 110*
amp: 106* speed: 46

log graphs available on request, don't really see the need to clutter the post with large pics.

again not lubing the outside of the teflon, but no dry squeal as of recent, a lot less teflon flakes too. but it is starting to create very noticeable wear on the exterior of the liner before and after the bend.

I am curious about NC's post on the other forum.
I see no real improvement that could be made with the new boats unless their shipping with a 4 pole motor , but I know they won't do that that would seem too much like a recall issue, unless they sneak them in.

My guess is that they'll tweak a few things;
bare minimum,
rudder inlet diameter
motor construction
outlet size
under radar,
esc piping diameter
motor jacket
strut mount position
should be done IMHO,
4 pole motor
metal jacket
rudder inlet lower on left face

My guess is that all us 10 guy beta V1.0 testers are going to get screwed because we were tasked with burning up their old stock.

My Theory is that Traxxas changed motor manufactures recently(the single end cap design vs. the old two cap on the standard VXLs) because as I have seen they are no good and we have had to deal with the old manufacturer defects from last year, that is more than likely the "big" change, that I don't really see helping much, unless it really is that much more efficent or they exceed my expectations and put a 4 pole in.
Which would have been good to know, but goes back to my big red number issue.

George

[JPriami]

As always good stuff George. I like your thinking and speculations on whats going on. Gives food for thought.

[GeoVW72]

Thanks Justin
That's about the only conclusion I can draw based on what Traxxas is doing. They knew that the motor would be an issue and a recall would hurt them even more financially and hurt their image, not that what they've been doing is any better.
I know I don't recommend the boat to anyone.
They think that the "New" motor will be all that and a bag o' chips, but I think they are too full of themselves.
Although some people seem to be getting by on the stock system, maybe 1in250 motors is actually constructed without large stator gaps.

by sheer chance I found the old rccaraction mag with the Titan article and interview with Tim Roberts, After I scan it I'll have to post it.

Did some tear down of the boat;
re-lubed the bearings, motor already stinks but no rotor epoxy discoloration.

had left the strut mounts alone to try and retain that setting, but after I cleaned them up and shoved 'em back to the right and up the boat ran better.
bent the trim tabs up 1* more, should just take them off

mounted the rudder on the left side of the mount again, but left the push rod in the outer hole.
boat handles about the same if not more planted, flow is better and seems more consistent.

Ambient: 32*f

Run#1 2x 2s
esc: 51* motor: 76*
max amp: 50 speed: 27mph

Run#2 2x 3s
esc: 70* motor: 98*
amp: 91 speed: 45

Run #3 2x 3s
esc: 78* motor: 110*
amp: 141 speed 44

amp spike was caused by throttling out of a hook spin.

lots of teflon flakes this time, tried to illustrate the wear best I could(ran a sharpie over it and wiped the excess off, left in the groves)

drive-line temps are only about 20* over ambient

since it's Traxxas week, and I want to make sure I do my part in burning through the old motors
I brought the stock jacket back

but not without modification

I was going to bring it back at some point after temps seem to stabilize and I think that some cross flow can help prevent ballooning/leaking and allow more flow over the motor.

Results tomorrow

[PeterTRAXXAS]

First off, let me apologize for not getting to this board way, way sooner. If you ever want to get the word from Traxxas into a thread, email a link to me at pvieira(at)traxxas.com. In the meantime, I'm trying to go through the threads and clear up any misinformation that I can (for example, we've never claimed 20 minutes of run-time from the Spartan). Please DO send me links to threads you think I need to hit ASAP, here at Offshore Electrics or on other boards, and I'll get there as soon as I can.

[Brushless55]

Thanks Justin
That's about the only conclusion I can draw based on what Traxxas is doing. They knew that the motor would be an issue and a recall would hurt them even more financially and hurt their image, not that what they've been doing is any better.
I know I don't recommend the boat to anyone.
They think that the "New" motor will be all that and a bag o' chips, but I think they are too full of themselves.
Although some people seem to be getting by on the stock system, maybe 1in250 motors is actually constructed without large stator gaps.

by sheer chance I found the old rccaraction mag with the Titan article and interview with Tim Roberts, After I scan it I'll have to post it.

Did some tear down of the boat;
re-lubed the bearings, motor already stinks but no rotor epoxy discoloration.

had left the strut mounts alone to try and retain that setting, but after I cleaned them up and shoved 'em back to the right and up the boat ran better.
bent the trim tabs up 1* more, should just take them off

mounted the rudder on the left side of the mount again, but left the push rod in the outer hole.
boat handles about the same if not more planted, flow is better and seems more consistent.

Ambient: 32*f

Run#1 2x 2s
esc: 51* motor: 76*
max amp: 50 speed: 27mph

Run#2 2x 3s
esc: 70* motor: 98*
amp: 91 speed: 45

Run #3 2x 3s
esc: 78* motor: 110*
amp: 141 speed 44

amp spike was caused by throttling out of a hook spin.

lots of teflon flakes this time, tried to illustrate the wear best I could(ran a sharpie over it and wiped the excess off, left in the groves)

drive-line temps are only about 20* over ambient

since it's Traxxas week, and I want to make sure I do my part in burning through the old motors
I brought the stock jacket back

but not without modification

I was going to bring it back at some point after temps seem to stabilize and I think that some cross flow can help prevent ballooning/leaking and allow more flow over the motor.

Results tomorrow

Hey let us know when you smoke another cheap traxxas motor

[GeoVW72]

Well, Well ladies and gents seems it really is Traxxas week here on the forums

I would like to thank Peter Vieira, aka PeterTRAXXAS aka angry overweight traxxas rep, for finally joining the discussion.
Not sure why you're bringing up something as trivial a run time when that's usually attributed to battery capacity.
Or why he's taken so long to get here, did things finally slow down or did corporate put your head on the line.
As marketing director, why has the rccaraction boat of the year award disappeared from existence? You pumped so much hype into this boat and the award to have it promptly pigeon holed in the back. You proudly display the other awards your models have won in your catalog, but no mention on the 1-page spartan ad.


There's no way the stock jacket is going to work with this motor, also finally had some stuffing tube discoloration.

Ambient: 34*f

Run #1 2x 2s
esc: 55* motor: 87*
max amp: 54 speed: 31mph

Run #2 2x 3s
esc: 82* motor: 130*
amp: 105 speed: 45

Run #3 2x 3s
esc: 85* motor: 159*
amp: 122 speed: 46


Boat acted real strange at the end of run 3, torque rolled really hard. The old gas boat guru that visits the shop sometimes said that the liner should not rotate in the tube. That's what's causing the chine walking issue and why JPriami has had so many issues with the stock drive line.
Oh well, back to lubing the outside of the liner until it think of an adhesive that will put up with the application.


The stock jacket did not leak as badly as it did unmodified, but obviously it is not cooling the motor enough.
Didn't fry yet, but the smell got worse with no discoloration of the balance epoxy.

[shctexas]

I too find Peters presence here odd. Other than mods, Traxxas has not responded publicly to the problems with their boat. He chooses this forum to do it? Geo,I agree on the run-time issue. I recall someone asking where Traxxas stated the boat would do 20 minutes. I don't recall a response. We are all aware of the mountain of valid issues with the boat no to mention the very well publicized claim of 50mph. I am interested to see how he handles the issues "over here". I'd suggest he focus on the Traxxas board. But welcome aboard Peter.

[shctexas]

An another not finally got the opportunity to really test my boat. It ran well after extensive modification, with the exception of the stuff tube. Serious extended torque roll and the tube was warmer than I felt it should be. I lubed it before I put it in the water. Next mod, new stringer and wire drive. Peter? Any input?