FYI, TP Motor news......Changes to face plate!

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  • NativePaul
    Greased Weasel
    • Feb 2008
    • 2760

    #31
    I am a weight weenie, I have to be as I have a limited amount of power to play with. I love one piece cans as it is the lightest way to make a motor, glueing endbells is fairly close as are threaded endbells, but neither are as reliable, screwed in endbells like these new ones add a considerable amount of weight as well as adding something else to go wrong.

    Without any mechanical gubbins in the endbell a 1 piece can can offer much better cooling, you can see in the pictures the 1 piece can has more cooling holes and those holes are also much larger.

    It is possible to make a 1 piece can shorter for the same size rotor, so those with limited space may be able to fit a more powerful motor in.

    Obviously there is a lot less material wastage and a lot less machining time in a 2 piece can compared to a 1 piece can reducing production costs. Cheaper manufacturing is all well and good as if the price is held static could lead to better materials being used eg thinner stronger alloys to save weight, thinner stator laminations for higher efficiency, higher grade Neodyimium for more torque, to fund R&D for better motors in the future, or it could be used to cut retail costs and ease our wallets. However I would expect them to make a big deal of any of those improvements to their retailers like Steven, and he mentioned none so I suspect it was done to increase their profit margins at our expense.

    This is not always the case with 2 piece cans, but with these specific motors if you look at the pics in the first post, the bearing in the 2 piece can in the wrong way around for us boaters. It is good for cars (where the motors are aimed) as it is impossible for the bearing to fall out should the bearing retainer fail as it is trapped between the endbell and the rotor or shims, and they all have gear drives so no end loads trying to move the bearings. You can see the 1 piece can has an external bearing pocket so flexshaft users that take the thrust at the motor have the can supporting the front bearing so it can't move, but the 2 piece can has an internal bearing pocket, so the thrust is trying to break the bearing retainer free, push the front bearing out, squish the shims/rotor resulting in lots of friction and heat, and pop the backplate off and/or back bearing out.






    Kinda off topic, I have a few NeuMotors (all fairly old and one piece, I didn't know they had changed), and I was thinking about getting a couple of 11 series, but the neumotors.com site seems to have transgressed into an early '90s text only 56k site and runs like I have a 9600 baud modem, and the Neumotors page on Castle's site where Neu sent me for my last couple of purchases is down, are they still in buisness? Is it just my PC? Are the new 11 series no longer 1 piece too? Anyone know where I can get one, OSE doesn't carry the 11 series.
    Paul Upton-Taylor, Greased Weasel Racing.

    Comment

    • T.S.Davis
      Fast Electric Addict!
      • Oct 2009
      • 6220

      #32
      Month old thread but it was linked and made me remember.

      Anybody have a motor can unscrew from it's face plate or is that just me?

      I've also had a motor rip the face plate set screws right through the can.
      Noisy person

      Comment

      • Steven Vaccaro
        Administrator
        • Apr 2007
        • 8721

        #33
        Tp will be changing the OSE motors to 3mm screws. The only motors with 4mm screws will be the cm 4070 and 56mm series.
        Steven Vaccaro

        Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

        Comment

        • donhuff
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2014
          • 561

          #34
          "I've also had a motor rip the face plate set screws right through the can."

          Well Terry, you shouldn't have stripped them.
          AmpDaddy
          don huff

          Comment

          • MarkF
            dinogylipos.com
            • Mar 2008
            • 979

            #35
            I just got in one of their new 5870 motors and it has the separate front faceplate. I checked the screws and they were barely snug. I redid them all with locktite so I hope I don't rip the screws out like Terry did.

            Mark

            Comment

            • T.S.Davis
              Fast Electric Addict!
              • Oct 2009
              • 6220

              #36
              I should have said. That was a Neu where the sets screws tore through the can. Basically the can came off of the face plate with set screws still in place on the face plate. The can ripped if you follow.

              It was a Neu that unscrewed itself too. That motor was old. No set screws. Maybe 2007.
              Noisy person

              Comment

              • ray schrauwen
                Fast Electric Addict!
                • Apr 2007
                • 9471

                #37
                I'm waiting to see how nicely Scorpion makes an inrunner. A couple more weeks since it's on backorder. Since it's backordered I was able to get them to keep the leads to a shorter 2" length.

                It would be nice if they start making 40mm motors and larger. I don't blame them for going slow with 28mm and 36mm motors.

                1.2mm thick wire, interesting. Some people are liking them since a few are on backorder.

                Designed specifically for boats.


                I had a few SSS 56mm motors with separate front plates and never a problem. Ran great too.
                Nortavlag Bulc

                Comment

                • properchopper
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 6968

                  #38
                  Breaking News from TP Power USA

                  Some more info to stir the pot :

                  1] TP Power motors will be two piece (actually three : [1]fixed wire-entry endbell, [2]can containing the guts, [3] bolted on pto endbell)
                  2] new pto endbell on 3630 has four instead of six hex bolts

                  old 6-bolt endbell on 3630 :
                  TP3630.jpg

                  New style with four bolts:
                  TPnew3630.jpg

                  (hold for more info re whether larger model numbers will have four or six )

                  3]The 3630's of most interest to the P-Ltd Class { 9D, 10D, 7Y } in respect to the PPPP [PltdPowerProspectiveProposal] have temporarily been housed in a (OMG) nonconforming 65mm can to allow car and plane winds to better fit some Y versions. I have requested the "boat winds" to be changed back to a shorter can soon to conform to the PPPP.*


                  * Of interest to NAMBA D19 racers, the PPPP was initially presented for adaption for ONLY the local SCSTA races at the recent SCSTA annual meeting BUT it was decided instead to bring it up for a District approval vote during the Feb 17,18 Lake Havasu race (mid-season votes now being allowed in the District.)
                  2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
                  2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
                  '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

                  Comment

                  • NativePaul
                    Greased Weasel
                    • Feb 2008
                    • 2760

                    #39
                    There is no getting round the removable endbells taking up room, if they go back to <62mm they will have to reduce the rotor length and copper mass to do so which will raise the KV and lower the torque.

                    There is a post on here with a gut who just got a v3 and a TP jacket, and the jacket wont go over the can even without an Oring, it could be a one off with a poorly machined can, or they could have slightly increased the diameter, without increasing the can ID. Has anyone fitted jackets to their v3 motors yet? Or does anyone have both styles of can and callipers to compare the 2.
                    Paul Upton-Taylor, Greased Weasel Racing.

                    Comment

                    • T.S.Davis
                      Fast Electric Addict!
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 6220

                      #40
                      I just shipped two of the 36mm back that were too long. There was room in the can BTW. I could ahve just butchered the can and made it work but ugh what a pain in a$$. I asked TP what the plan was moving forward but got no answer from them.

                      A club mate recently ordered a 3630 and they asked him which can he wanted.
                      Noisy person

                      Comment

                      • properchopper
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 6968

                        #41
                        Originally posted by NativePaul
                        There is no getting round the removable endbells taking up room, if they go back to <62mm they will have to reduce the rotor length and copper mass to do so which will raise the KV and lower the torque.

                        There is a post on here with a gut who just got a v3 and a TP jacket, and the jacket wont go over the can even without an Oring, it could be a one off with a poorly machined can, or they could have slightly increased the diameter, without increasing the can ID. Has anyone fitted jackets to their v3 motors yet? Or does anyone have both styles of can and callipers to compare the 2.
                        "if they go back to <62mm they will have to reduce the rotor length and copper mass to do so which will raise the KV and lower the torque."

                        Not so.

                        The original 3630 (58mm can) and the new version (64mm) have identical rotors and stator copper mass. The longer can just has some unoccupied real estate inside to allow fitting some more aggressive winds.

                        Your point would make sense if the original can was longer then they shortened it and the rotor/stator to fit.

                        DSC07810.JPG DSC07819.JPG

                        DSC07812.JPG DSC07818.JPG
                        2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
                        2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
                        '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

                        Comment

                        • properchopper
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 6968

                          #42
                          Originally posted by T.S.Davis
                          I just shipped two of the 36mm back that were too long. There was room in the can BTW. I could ahve just butchered the can and made it work but ugh what a pain in a$$. I asked TP what the plan was moving forward but got no answer from them.

                          A club mate recently ordered a 3630 and they asked him which can he wanted.
                          I recently suggested that the 65mm can variants be okey-dokeyed at WW given they're the SAME internally as the 58mm versions. Why not ? Got shut down. Rulez are rulez, even 'tho they're just proposals. Funny how the BJ29 v3 has been okey-dokeyed here (and the PB 2000 PB motor) without batting an eye in spite of they're NOT legal according to the actual "Big Boy" NAMBA rulez.

                          While I don't have all the answers, at least I did save a bunch of money switching to GEICO auto insurance

                          DSC07827.JPG
                          Last edited by properchopper; 01-27-2017, 04:52 PM.
                          2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
                          2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
                          '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

                          Comment

                          • T.S.Davis
                            Fast Electric Addict!
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 6220

                            #43
                            Tony, are you making the trek to Warmups? Be great to finally meet ya in person.

                            We're staying under 2k for warmups. We wont have enough laps on these to get to crazy anyway. Water is solid up here.
                            Noisy person

                            Comment

                            • properchopper
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 6968

                              #44
                              Originally posted by T.S.Davis
                              Tony, are you making the trek to Warmups? Be great to finally meet ya in person.

                              We're staying under 2k for warmups. We wont have enough laps on these to get to crazy anyway. Water is solid up here.
                              Terry,

                              I'd love to make the trek (and meetcha) BUT

                              1] Recovering from surgery (actually recovered enough, but...)

                              2] Saving resources and strength for Vegas

                              3] Dog ate my transmitter

                              4] Need P.O.'s permission to leave state

                              5] Termite infestation danger from too much WW wood
                              DSC07844.JPG
                              Last edited by properchopper; 01-27-2017, 05:17 PM.
                              2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
                              2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
                              '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

                              Comment

                              • rayzerdesigns
                                Fast Electric Addict!
                                • Dec 2013
                                • 1228

                                #45
                                Originally posted by properchopper
                                Some more info to stir the pot :

                                1] TP Power motors will be two piece (actually three : [1]fixed wire-entry endbell, [2]can containing the guts, [3] bolted on pto endbell)
                                2] new pto endbell on 3630 has four instead of six hex bolts

                                old 6-bolt endbell on 3630 :
                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]149067[/ATTACH]

                                New style with four bolts:
                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]149068[/ATTACH]

                                (hold for more info re whether larger model numbers will have four or six )

                                3]The 3630's of most interest to the P-Ltd Class { 9D, 10D, 7Y } in respect to the PPPP [PltdPowerProspectiveProposal] have temporarily been housed in a (OMG) nonconforming 65mm can to allow car and plane winds to better fit some Y versions. I have requested the "boat winds" to be changed back to a shorter can soon to conform to the PPPP.*


                                * Of interest to NAMBA D19 racers, the PPPP was initially presented for adaption for ONLY the local SCSTA races at the recent SCSTA annual meeting BUT it was decided instead to bring it up for a District approval vote during the Feb 17,18 Lake Havasu race (mid-season votes now being allowed in the District.)
                                Hmm.. that's funny.. I'm the district fe chair and no one said a word to me about this

                                Comment

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