New years resolution

[DPeterson]

I think until some guy's here actually experience driving the extended mill they are not going to really understand the value and fun with it. And with electric I am proposing to only add one more lap to the existing one lap mill. Main point is to get the boats spread out so they are not all on turn one at the start. I would be very surprised if there are alot of boat set ups out there that can not do one more lap. My boats are not slow and I am pretty sure I can get at least 10 laps. I wouldn't want to do a long mill on a 4:00 minute offshore run.

In D4 not one fuel type is going to succeed with out the others. It is the three fuel types that are keeping the clubs and race venues going. Our 25 year old nitro club is now 33% nitro, 33% gas and 33% electric. The main growth is gas followed by a distant second electric. We have been able to keep the fuel types running seperate. In D4 I believe it would be a benefit to continue to align as much of the racing across the fuel types.

Topics are swinging in different directions but I seem to be learning more about what is happening out there.

[Darin Jordan]

My boats are not slow and I am pretty sure I can get at least 10 laps.

My boats tend to not be slow either... especially my OPC and my Hydro (P-LTD), and both of these use 2300-2500 mAh for a typical heat race, which includes a 1-Lap "Mill" that starts at the 30-second clock from the dock, and a cool-down lap, just because I like to do that to stay out of the way of those still racing behind me... You are NOT getting 10-laps out of that setup without damaging you cells on a typical 5000mAh setup.

There isn't anything, in my humble opinion, about milling more than our current 1-Lap/30-seconds arrangement, that would add to the racing and make it any more enjoyable. I've done it with both Nitro and Gas, and with those fuel types it's necessary to get the race underway. For FE, it's simply not.

And, frankly, I can't count how many times that 5 or 6 Nitro boats have left the dock at between the 2:00 and 30-Seconds mark, and only 2 or 3 take the start. I don't see the "thrill" in that. My race starts when the clock hits 0, and regardless of the mill strategy (again, done it with Nitro, Gas, and FE), I don't usually have a problem nailing a start.

To be clear, I don't MIND doing a full "several" lap Mill... I just don't see the appeal for FE. 1-Lap is plenty of time to jockey for lanes and for those who have "lane control" issues to either take themselves, or take ME, out of the race before the start. I'd prefer to get the racing under way so I can get away from those drivers.

[DPeterson]

I run mostly 5500 to 6500 cells. My OPC likes 4200. That would be a problem.

Again my main goal is to get the boats spread out. I also have had issues with slow pit guy's and have seen many others with the same. The pit guy stands behind all the other pit guys and waits to launch. Some times we yell at them - throw the boat in please. By now the clock is down to 18 seconds. Race over. Sometimes its just a stupid pit guy. Alot of times it is a small launch area and there is no choice.

Actually the rule book in IMPBA says to start launching at 60 seconds with a no launch after 30. What does NAMBA rule book say? The only place I have seen a 60 second clock was out at London Ontario many years ago. And I used it a couple times. :) Have not seen one since.

So with no extra mill lap and a 30 second no launch, we start launching at 60 and let the boats sit behind the start line waiting for the 30 second 1 lap mill. I wonder which is really better. Sit behind the start line trying to keep the boat steady or do the extra 1 lap.

[Darin Jordan]

Actually the rule book in IMPBA says to start launching at 60 seconds with a no launch after 30. What does NAMBA rule book say?

I'd have to go read the rules, but I know that our "normal" (Nitro/Gas) countdown starts at 2:00, then at 30-seconds, it says "End of Pit time. No more boats in the water. You are now in Mill-Time". So, even in Nitro/Gas, the only "required" mill is 30-seconds...

For FE, the clock just starts at 30. I toss my boat in the water at start out onto the course around the 25-second mark, and that is usually just about right for a standard 1/6th mile course.

[Flying Scotsman]

As a total newbie as far as model boat racing is concerned ( I did rally car race back in bonny Scotland ) but I am a big fan of all types of auto racing and boats. Therefore, I find this thread of great interest, my own two cents are that mill time, under power, adds a special skill to full size or model racing and as far as reduced power/time in FE batteries at the end of their charge that just adds another skill level. By the way I do like Tony's idea of a Le Mans start....that is so cool, absolute chaos at the start and 1st turn. I can just imagine all these 'GENTS" running to their starting box to pick up their radio controller.

Douggie

[Darin Jordan]

By the way I do like Tony's idea of a Le Mans start....that is so cool, absolute chaos at the start and 1st turn.

It was fun, but did put a strong emphasis on how good you where at jockeying for position on the shoreline. Where your boat was launched was make or break in many cases.

[Chilli]

In D4 not one fuel type is going to succeed with out the others. It is the three fuel types that are keeping the clubs and race venues going. Our 25 year old nitro club is now 33% nitro, 33% gas and 33% electric. The main growth is gas followed by a distant second electric. We have been able to keep the fuel types running seperate. In D4 I believe it would be a benefit to continue to align as much of the racing across the fuel types.

Doug, For those of us who want FE to go main stream. I just want to verify that by saying I hope the FE's intergrate with the fuelies dosnt mean I advocate we all run in combined classes together. I mean we need to get out of our little FE cliques and integrate as racers.

To get back on track with this thread. I enjoy the mill with gas boats. It gives me a chance to feel out my boat, the course and the other racers. Then with about a minute left, you start putting the war paint on and getting in position for a good start. But every power source has benifits and limitations. I think the longer mill for FE's would be a really tough sell for the majoity of racers.

[T.S.Davis]

Main point is to get the boats spread out so they are not all on turn one at the start.

So the guy that times the start best wins......or................... if everyone is able to time the start and cross the line at zero you still have up to 8 boats hitting turn one. The most likely scenario is that the guy that has the most starts under his belt is going to lead most of the race.

We do have a couple guys that will rip off multiple laps before the start. They don't do it every time though.

I'm confused by the "go run a gas boat" notion. The best way for me to learn where to go with FE racing is to NOT race FE? I have to go race gas to determine what we should do for FE. Is Paul Pachmeyer doing his puppet tricks again? Back around 2007 maybe, Paul said I could never learn about FE without racing open classes with nitro and gas. A recurring theme.

I was thinking about taking up F1 racing. Anybody know where I can find a dinosaur to ride so I can get a feel for it?

I have a better idea. How about the fossil fuel guys race FE our way so that they can get used to the future instead of the other way around.

Sure, they have the numbers today but eventually that will change. FE is becoming less black art where the power plants are concerned. A good P mono motor and speedo was once $550 only few years ago. Might have got you to maybe 55mph. Now you can take a P mono to 65mph for about $260....ish. There's still setup ninja skills at play that but that's true regardless of the power source.

[DPeterson]

LOL Terry. I think your missing most of the valuable points. Wish you could travel out of Michigan more often. I learned an awful lot about Electric when I hit the road. Learned a tremendous more when I started to attend nitro and gas races.

Would like more of your input on the 30 - 60 second clock, small launch areas and slow pit guy's.

[T.S.Davis]

It was fun, but did put a strong emphasis on how good you where at jockeying for position on the shoreline. Where your boat was launched was make or break in many cases.

We were doing Le Mans for offshore at the early Cup races. Riot. Problems ensued. The pit guys didn't always toss the boats pointed exactly perfect. Then to compound that problem, some of us had no laps other than the Cup race. Picture an 8 boat drag race to the first pin. Disaster. Lanes? We nont need no stink'n lanes. Might as well have been a demo derby. Lots of laughs though. Most of us had plastic boats with Nicd back then. Sometimes your boat would come back with a crease all the way down the side that you couldn't account for.

We even switched it up after a while. We tried floating the boats and your pit man held it in place pointed the right way until the clock hit zero. Then hit it! Some of us ran gear drives then. We started building around a prop that would give us the hole shot. Let the motor wind out and gear for the big blade. Think x452 on a Titan29. You could see nothing until they came out of turn 2. That is if they came out of 2.

I don't know about this mill thing. I'm not for it.

I believe, based on the races and racers I've seen, we need to focus on getting guys to run laps laps laps laps laps and learn their boats more than anything. Practice practice practice on a course. Not just an open pond. Practice with people if you can. Recognize how much left you need to make a minor course adjustment instead of laying the boat over in front of on coming traffic. It's different for every boat too. Make laps with what you are going to race. Not just LSH cuz it's your favorite. Driving is the biggest problem for FE in my opinion.

Peter, an old nitro guy once described the gas guys to me as "gasholes". He didn't elaborate and I was afraid to ask.

[T.S.Davis]

LOL Terry. I think your missing most of the valuable points. Wish you could travel out of Michigan more often. I learned an awful lot about Electric when I hit the road. Learned a tremendous more when I started to attend nitro and gas races.

Would like more of your input on the 30 - 60 second clock, small launch areas and slow pit guy's.

Come on Doug. Really? I've been outside of MI plenty. Went to 5 NAMBA nats and 1 IMPBA nat. They weren't all in MI. I've also raced at 5 mixed events. Couple SAW events. So 5 states and 2 countries. That's without digging too deep. I'm not as sheltered as you make it sound.

Your points are separation and strategy. I get it. I just don't want it. I don't really want the mill to determine the race.

So what is the question? You mean how sad/slow/pathetic some pit guys are? Gotta be. There is that problem. You know if your pit guy is slow. Deal with it. So toss it in at a minute and stay out of the lanes of traffic. If staying out of the lanes is too hard then do those extra laps if you have the capacity. The 14 nats was tough. We got the dock worked out okay. In on the right then out the other dock. The problem became getting up the ramp to the drivers. A couple times I went in at 1 minute. Tyler always went in at 1 minute. Still does. Even at the club puddle.

What do you guys do at IMPBA races? I was once told "absolutely no launching from the dock" at an IMPBA race. Like it was blasphemy to think otherwise. They wanted those boats thrown. Period. Is that still the norm?

[Doby]

The 2014 Nats seemed to work really well with the standard "30 second" mil (so to say).

I say dump them in the water, run them out and float till the 30 second mark...who cares if you dump it in at the 1 minute or 10 minute mark..they sit and float. (Except my 1/8th...it needs to keep on plane once thrown in).

If the pit guys do the 1 minute thing, then they should have ample time to meander up to the drivers stand. If not, then they need to be put out to pasture!

Personally I think the gas/nitro guys are jealous that we can do that.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Peterson, I like what your are thinking and doing with regards to the "spec" motors.....but his topic proves you need to step away from inhaling excessive cheese fumes, put on 4 layers of long underwear, strap your thermal winter visor on, step out in to the fresh air and go watch the Cowboys trounce the Cheese Heads this weekend.

[T.S.Davis]

The 2014 Nats seemed to work really well with the standard "30 second" mil (so to say).

Yeah but that was in MI and therefore doesn't count as a real world event. Only mixed events where there are no FE clubs that stand on their own represent what's happening in FE John. Haven't you been paying attention? Sheesh. Something must be getting lost in translation to Canadian.

[rayzerdesigns]

i don't think anything more than the 30 second mill is necessary..we don't need the warmup..even if you do the fuel thing..its not gonna spread out the start..everyone ants to hit the line at 0..i like the jocking for lane one..

[properchopper]

i don't think anything more than the 30 second mill is necessary..we don't need the warmup..even if you do the fuel thing..its not gonna spread out the start..everyone ants to hit the line at 0..i like the jocking for lane one..

Be mindful of this rule :

" Lanes for the start are set at the turn-two exit buoy. Any movement other than a straight line to the start line,
the offending boat shall be assessed a one lap penalty. Any boat that interferes with another boat (i.e.:
causing it to slow down or change direction) between the start line and the entrance of turn one shall be
assessed a one (1) lap penalty "