Need a boat built

[keithbradley]

I don't think Tom ever built a boat himself. Those 96" cats he had molded were being built a few miles from my house. SCT couldn't build the hulls in carbon for under 1k so Tom moved the molds to Florida and they've not been heard from since. Tom bailed on the whole danged thing.

I carry liability insurance under H2O Specialties but I don't think it would cover a catastrophic boat incident. That's not my primary business. I may ask my underwriter about that.

I'm sorry, that was a typo. I wouldn't question why he would have you build a boat for him. That should have said why DIDN'T Tom have you build that boat.
Last I heard he was doing a twin turbine Mystic to match the big boat. I'm not sure who's building it.

[T.S.Davis]

He did do a twin turbine. Not sure who built it. If someone had built a twin FE for him we would have heard about it by now. That's one of those builds for which there is no point of reference. You have to invent everything.

That guy was on the history channel with a real boat he had restored. Well, one had someone restore. Classic run about.

[Chrisg81983]

One more thing to think about ....... i.have built over 30 boats now just for myself and probably 20 for other people. Recently I built a boat for a great friend and had something happen that never happened before. At our lake there are a lot of angry new yorkers. Some smart @$$ thought it would be a good idea to throw a large branch in the water as I was taking a 100 mph pass. The boat ran it over and before I knew it 4k at my cost was gone. I never lost a boat in my life until now and I must say it's a horrible feeling. What I am trying to get at is that if you are getting ready to take someone's money you better have it to back up. Even an more important thing is if you never built or owned something similar to what a customer is asking don't take it on. Building these high end boats takes time and experience along with a ton of cash. It's not something you learn overnight as I/we learn more and more with each one built. Picking 2500 dollars in electronic components and motors for someone is not a crap shoot. You can't take a guess on this stuff imagine saying get these motors and esc's and come to find they aren't rite for the build. What do you tell the guy that just trusted you with his hard earned cash.

[iridebikes247]

^That was a bad day, it was such a messed up thing. Some drunk guy was angry and decided to throw a huge stick into the lake while the boat was in motion. I will say though I have never seen someone run away that fast he knew he destroyed it, unfortunately we never saw him again or got any information so chris had to pay for it.

Anyway I think the take away from this is bad things can happen and when they do it happens very very fast.

[nata2run]

There is a fine line in boat building we should always remember.... People are different and want different things. Some may want a very fast boat just to win an event while others want a fast boat to last. Then there are those that just want a looker and don't care too much about speed, or a combination of all. It's always important to ask, what do you have in mind and what is it for? Does it take 5k to go 80mph? Hell yeah! plus some... if one spends 200+ hours on it then yes. Always consider who you are building for, and what the purpose is. If you can't deliver on the request, simply direct to someone that may be fit to do the work. Would I build a 120mph boat? Yes! Would I ever guarantee it? NO WAY! If you, your self don't know how to reach it, best you don't touch it.... Just my one dollar worth

[Spartanator]

Need a boat built

If the dude (Travis/kfxguy) said he has never built a twin then he didn't. Would he give it his absolute best? That's a "duh" question!

Waverider: I think you need to choose what builder (if you haven't scared them off) wisely. You must have an RC budget if you have a 5T, but if someone says they have not built "A" before then why are you trying to make them build "A"?

"Hey Joe, can you build me a house?

Bob: I ain't never built one before but I sure can try!

Joe: What?
You build storage sheds all the time!

Bob: Yeah, those are smaller and don't have people living in them

Joe: Why aren't you being honest with me? You told me you could build stuff.

Bob: I am a shed builder, if you need a house built I am not your guy. That doesn't mean I would use Elmer's to put tile down..."

Anyone else wanna see how this is going to go? I don't.

If you want a serious toy, ask someone that has more experience in the large toy department... Not that Travis couldn't handle it, but it MIGHT not be as good as a more experienced builder such as KBB. It's up to you and your bank account, however my $ went to Travis and from what I have seen, it will to to Travis. Don't take away anything from the builder if you have not seen the workmanship.

Who do you have build a LS9 Suburban? Chevrolet or Dodge? (That's if you have to pick OEM).

I do think you need to read your first post... You said he does amazing work, yet you are starting to aggressively question him and others about it? Hmmmm, if I was a builder and someone came to me that has only has experience from a Revolt that wants a 40"+ CAT I would force them to read more...
My longggg very "weird" post is now over.

[T.S.Davis]

When I was asked about that 96" cat the first thing we talked about was who has built something like that.

Went:
"ever done one like this?"
"oh heck no"
"is there someone that has?"
"...........I can't think of anyone"
"think you can do it?"
".......yes. I CAN build it but the parts will cost a fortune"
"that's not an issue"

I couldn't think of anybody in the states that had built an 8' FE cat at the time. I was up front about it but told him I could do it. That would have been a once in a lifetime build for any builder.

Some builds there is no point of reference for until you've built it. Once upon a time everyone rode horses too. Keith wasn't born building 100mph cats. He had to start somewhere.

[kfxguy]

When I was asked about that 96" cat the first thing we talked about was who has built something like that.

Went:
"ever done one like this?"
"oh heck no"
"is there someone that has?"
"...........I can't think of anyone"
"think you can do it?"
".......yes. I CAN build it but the parts will cost a fortune"
"that's not an issue"

I couldn't think of anybody in the states that had built an 8' FE cat at the time. I was up front about it but told him I could do it. That would have been a once in a lifetime build for any builder.

Some builds there is no point of reference for until you've built it. Once upon a time everyone rode horses too. Keith wasn't born building 100mph cats. He had to start somewhere.

This is the best post of the whole thread!

[Spartanator]

Need a boat built

This is the best post of the whole thread!

Yep!

[Rocstar]

When I was asked about that 96" cat the first thing we talked about was who has built something like that.

Went:
"ever done one like this?"
"oh heck no"
"is there someone that has?"
"...........I can't think of anyone"
"think you can do it?"
".......yes. I CAN build it but the parts will cost a fortune"
"that's not an issue"

I couldn't think of anybody in the states that had built an 8' FE cat at the time. I was up front about it but told him I could do it. That would have been a once in a lifetime build for any builder.

Some builds there is no point of reference for until you've built it. Once upon a time everyone rode horses too. Keith wasn't born building 100mph cats. He had to start somewhere.

Terry, would you agree that, had there been someone that was into building 96'' cats you may have referred Tom to them? Also do you think that because of the existing relationship between you two, he trusted you to handle the build.... and had he not known you he may not of asked you to build it? I think the reason this guy is upset is he was told "no problem" on the build even though the builder had no experience in what he was requesting. That and not being able to answer his questions. I'm sure he could of built it, he has made it this far with the help of the information on the forums. However, I personally wouldn't want to pay someone to learn on my boat.

By the way...I think it's pretty lame of someone to delete all their posts. It defeats the whole purpose of a forum and leads one to assume the posts were erroneous to begin with.

[keithbradley]

Once upon a time everyone rode horses too. Keith wasn't born building 100mph cats. He had to start somewhere.

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say here Terry...

I'm not here to tell anyone what is wrong or what is right, but my name has been getting thrown around a lot in this thread and it would be easy to infer things that aren't true.

You're right, I wasn't born building 100mph cats, or any boats for that matter. None of us were. We have all had to learn from the things we do right, the things we do wrong, and the things that we could simply do better. I can assure you that a boat I built 5 years ago, a year ago, or even months ago would not be of the same quality compared to a boat I build now. I look at the stuff I built even a year ago and can point out numerous things that are well below my standards today. It's simply impossible to just know everything. We learn through experience. While I'm sure you would have done a fine job on Tom's cat if you had a chance, I'm also certain that if you built and ran a hundred more you would change how you did things as you learned from each one.

HOWEVER...

I DON'T build people's boats blindly. If I don't KNOW how something is going to perform, I typically build it for myself first rather than testing it out on the customer. There are always exceptions to this. If someone asked me to build one of Tom's 96" cats, I would not have the experience with that hull. I could use the experience I have with large catamarans and apply it to that, but I would definitely be sure to make Tom aware that I can't guarantee how an untested hull would run until it hit the water and we tested it. I'm actually in this position right now with a build. An owner of one of the large race catamaran companies wants me to build a boat. He sent me a hull to build and I really don't like the way it's made (I won't mention the hull manufacturer). The hatch design sucks to secure and would likely fail in a hard crash, the tunnel doesn't make sense for a high speed boat, and the sponsons look like they were likely modified after testing to makeup for the odd tunnel design. My prediction was that the boat would run well at 50-60mph and perhaps a bit faster, but be nearly impossible to run at the higher speeds he wanted. I could be totally wrong. You never know without testing. In this case though, I would rather not roll the dice on something that I didn't think would run well. Do you know how hard it is to tell a guy that builds million dollar boats that I don't want to build the (big and expensive to ship) hull he just sent to me? It's not easy. In fact just the idea of it brought me down for a few days. I did let him know my concerns though, and said I would build the boat if he really wanted, but I didn't think he's going to be happy with it.
I wouldn't have even known better in the past, but I still would have made sure that his expectations were consistent with my experience.

I'm not posting this because I think anyone else needs to follow any particular protocol. I'm posting this because I don't want anyone to think that I started out running at a lower level and then got to where I'm at on the customer's dime. I don't do things that way. I R&D on my own stuff and apply that knowledge to my customer's boats so I know exactly what I am giving them before I even start. Everyone doesn't have to do it this way...but it is how I do things so I wanted to make that clear.

If someone else wants to build a twin, single, triple, whatever, for a customer that's between them and their customer. I don't recall seeing kfxguy say he had vast amounts of experience or claim to be as good or better than anybody in this thread. I'm sure he would do whatever he could to make sure the boat he builds is up to par. I think Waverunner posted this thread without doing a lot of research and probably had unreasonable expectations. You can't really put a guy on a pedestal, ask him a few questions, then hold it against him for not meeting whatever criteria you expected him to meet.

[kfxguy]

I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say here Terry...

I'm not here to tell anyone what is wrong or what is right, but my name has been getting thrown around a lot in this thread and it would be easy to infer things that aren't true.

You're right, I wasn't born building 100mph cats, or any boats for that matter. None of us were. We have all had to learn from the things we do right, the things we do wrong, and the things that we could simply do better. I can assure you that a boat I built 5 years ago, a year ago, or even months ago would not be of the same quality compared to a boat I build now. I look at the stuff I built even a year ago and can point out numerous things that are well below my standards today. It's simply impossible to just know everything. We learn through experience. While I'm sure you would have done a fine job on Tom's cat if you had a chance, I'm also certain that if you built and ran a hundred more you would change how you did things as you learned from each one.

HOWEVER...

I DON'T build people's boats blindly. If I don't KNOW how something is going to perform, I typically build it for myself first rather than testing it out on the customer. There are always exceptions to this. If someone asked me to build one of Tom's 96" cats, I would not have the experience with that hull. I could use the experience I have with large catamarans and apply it to that, but I would definitely be sure to make Tom aware that I can't guarantee how an untested hull would run until it hit the water and we tested it. I'm actually in this position right now with a build. An owner of one of the large race catamaran companies wants me to build a boat. He sent me a hull to build and I really don't like the way it's made (I won't mention the hull manufacturer). The hatch design sucks to secure and would likely fail in a hard crash, the tunnel doesn't make sense for a high speed boat, and the sponsons look like they were likely modified after testing to makeup for the odd tunnel design. My prediction was that the boat would run well at 50-60mph and perhaps a bit faster, but be nearly impossible to run at the higher speeds he wanted. I could be totally wrong. You never know without testing. In this case though, I would rather not roll the dice on something that I didn't think would run well. Do you know how hard it is to tell a guy that builds million dollar boats that I don't want to build the (big and expensive to ship) hull he just sent to me? It's not easy. In fact just the idea of it brought me down for a few days. I did let him know my concerns though, and said I would build the boat if he really wanted, but I didn't think he's going to be happy with it.
I wouldn't have even known better in the past, but I still would have made sure that his expectations were consistent with my experience.

I'm not posting this because I think anyone else needs to follow any particular protocol. I'm posting this because I don't want anyone to think that I started out running at a lower level and then got to where I'm at on the customer's dime. I don't do things that way. I R&D on my own stuff and apply that knowledge to my customer's boats so I know exactly what I am giving them before I even start. Everyone doesn't have to do it this way...but it is how I do things so I wanted to make that clear.

If someone else wants to build a twin, single, triple, whatever, for a customer that's between them and their customer. I don't recall seeing kfxguy say he had vast amounts of experience or claim to be as good or better than anybody in this thread. I'm sure he would do whatever he could to make sure the boat he builds is up to par. I think Waverunner posted this thread without doing a lot of research and probably had unreasonable expectations. You can't really put a guy on a pedestal, ask him a few questions, then hold it against him for not meeting whatever criteria you expected him to meet.

Thank you keith. I want to apologize for deleting my posts. I was pissed at what the OP had posted and just didn't want to even have part in this thread. It started to veer off in a way I didn't agree in. Your right keith, I never said I was better or had vast experience or had experience in building what he wanted. It's not hard to take note of setups on here that fit what he wanted and use that as a guideline to build from. I had even mentioned you for a twin build. Had he stated he wanted something way out of the ordinary, I would have consulted you or sent him to you. Your right about experimenting on the customers dime, but it would take me a long to to build a great variety of hulls and different combinations. When I take on a project for someone, I'm prepared to give their money back should it fail to perform the way they wanted. I definately don't want to send out a ho-hum build. If this guy wanted a 5 grand build after feeling him out, I would have sent him elsewhere. I'm not prepared to do that just yet. I really don't want to get into a habit of building boats for people anyway. That takes me away from my wife, family and the little free time I might have and my personal builds. I don't mind doing one every now and then, but it's not a business I want to get into.

Btw, he never even said he wanted a twin. He asked if it's even worth it and if they were mainly for scale look...that seemed like he was open for suggestions. I'm actually getting ready to start on something basically like he was asking for anyway.... (well possibly asking for) a big single driven 41" hull that will top 80mph.

[rearwheelin]

Hey everyone I'm down to build it too ! Ha ha

[Luck as a Constant]

Need a boat built

"Burp"

[keithbradley]

Hey everyone I'm down to build it too ! Ha ha

Just for the record, I'm not. After my first post in this thread I PMed kfxguy and told him I wasn't interested in taking the build if waverunner asked, and I offered to help with choosing a setup if he decided to try a twin build. I saw where this was headed and didn't post here to take a build. I posted to correct a comment about our carbon fiber hulls.