CF Cloth?

[Wetter]

Flamethrower engaged...

The strength comes from the fabric. Epoxy alone is very weak and brittle. If you made a hull of pure epoxy resin, it likely wouldn't make it through a run.
Too much resin adds weight and actually weakens the piece. So, in that case, you are somewhat correct. The guys you see laying CF using adhesive and then spreading large amounts of epoxy on top for what some refer to as a "glossy" finish (I prefer to use the term "Mickey Mouse" in reference to this look) are really not providing anything that a layer of fiberglass wouldn't do. For carbon fiber to be strong it needs to be done correctly.

Tony, if you're venturing into the world of laying CF, let me know. I can send some tips your way that will make your life a little easier, and your final product nicer.
I'll be doing a tutorial shorty on how to properly do a CF inlay. It's really not that hard to do it properly, and get a nice look when you do it.

A few examples:

This looks like the Armor of a video game in Crysis 2 (yea @ 50, games keep me honed)
Thank you guys yall' know your stuff, just so much fun buildn' and learning. truly i can figure most things out on my own and, well it always helpful when someone else has gone through it.
Thanks again and always i enjoy the input in every thing i read here
Really, God Bless.
From EMS
ps Kieth should be ordering Special parts from ya soon. holidays and such are a coming, it gets a lil' slow towards then, small amount of reserves for the hobby though just got to pay before i play.

[keithbradley]

Well as much as I appreciate seeing your work Tony, I must admit you have me more interested with the dog now...I think it's the twerking that got me.

[iridebikes247]

Uh oh....lol. For once I think I'm disagreeing with chopper on here. sometimes people go way too heavy with the epoxy and this gives the illusion of strength on the bench when you press down on the hull, nope it will crack under stress. the added epoxy itself does very very little for strength but gives the illusion of strength because it increases stiffness. I have added CF inlays to two non carbon hulls and shed a few tears in the process of wrapping every single inch of the deck and floor. With hatches bolted on I stand on top of the hulls, not the sidewalls but one foot in the middle of the deck. They sag quite a bit under weight but make no cracking sounds, therefore no air has entered.

These hulls would have blown out if just fiberglass. Adding an inlay after scuffing a hull for a good mechanical bond won't quite be the same as having a good chemical bond when all materials are still in the mold but you can get close. There are quite a few tricks to working with CF, its easily done if you use a very small amount of epoxy and everything is clean/sharp. A LOT of cheap hulls have come out in the past few years and some have cool lines and nicely designed bottoms, so inlay expertise with CF really pays dividends for us now. FG cloth with pigment can really dress up a hull too if thats all one is after but lets say this, i never store my boats with the hatch on now. I only want to look at the cf.

[Wetter]

[QUOTE=iridebikes247;533149] sometimes people go way too heavy with the epoxy and this gives the illusion of strength on the bench when you press down on the hull,

ok so what appropriate thickness of epoxy? skim thin or cover of material thickness?

[Cooper]

[QUOTE=Wetter;533200]

sometimes people go way too heavy with the epoxy and this gives the illusion of strength on the bench when you press down on the hull,

ok so what appropriate thickness of epoxy? skim thin or cover of material thickness?

As little epoxy as possible. The cloth needs to be completely wetted, any excess resin can be rolled/squeegeed off/out. It would be better and way stronger to have two layers of cloth, opposite weave directions, than one with a thick layer of epoxy(resin) The main developmental concept of using carbon fiber weave was to be able to strengthen irregular shapes with minimal weight as possible. The epoxy, like Keith said, will chemically bond and encapsulate the fibers to substrate. There really is a lot of reasons why so many types of epoxies/resins are out there. All different applications. Rule of thumb, longer setting will have a better bond. And like tony said, fiberglass is still some strong stuff. I like the look of cf and for my purposes in reinforcing I try to minimize every ounce wherever I can. Not as much weight difference in glass verses carbon but when a 1/4" layer of resin is used it's just added weight. It will be a slight bit stronger but still be brittle and excessive weight.

[Cooper]

And those guys have mad skills laying that stuff!!! Yea, you know ya do :) !!!

[Wetter]

so what resin or epoxy should be used then?
appreciate all this feed back.
Kieth when would your tutorial be out?
and Cooper did you ever finish your stingers you manufactured? (can't seem to find that build site that you were posted in).
Thax again.
(CF would make an interesting suit)

[Mgivens]

I would listen to the other guys before me...but, I LOVE west systems 105 epoxy with the 206 hardner! Great stuff, a real pleasure to work with. I think you will enjoy and be more successful with an inlay if you use a real quality epoxy like west systems

[wayne middlemiss]

vinylester would be my choice for cf layups

[Savage Skidoo]

I use the West systems , Ive tried other's on the market , they don't even come close .

IMGA0208.jpg

[T.S.Davis]

I use the West systems , Ive tried other's on the market , they don't even come close .

Yep. Me too. I'm sure there are other epoxies that are just as good but once a club mate turned me onto West I quit looking. To save a few bucks? Nah, just give me the stuff that works and I don't have to worry about. Plus, many of the marine stores in my area have it on the shelf. Easy breezy lemon squeezy.

Not for strength but to soak into ply I really like the special clear hardener too.

[Wetter]

I have the West System 650 G/flex on hand from other lil' projects.
and the marine store i purchase from should have the west systems 105 epoxy with the 206 hardner (thanx Mgivens).
so like i am in no rush on this and still have a few things to read about. preparing on expanding my hobby space also.
it's either down size or stuff goes to storage.
anyways Thanx for the fish
ps T.S.Davis "Nah, just give me the stuff that works and I don't have to worry about." Ain't that the truth!

[iridebikes247]

IMG_20130819_111321_632.jpg. This is an older boat using 105 and 207.

[iridebikes247]

IMG_20130819_111321_632.jpg

[Apophis]

I'll be doing a tutorial shorty on how to properly do a CF inlay.