CF Cloth?

[RandyatBBY]

Uh oh....lol. For once I think I'm disagreeing with chopper on here. sometimes people go way too heavy with the epoxy and this gives the illusion of strength on the bench when you press down on the hull, nope it will crack under stress. the added epoxy itself does very very little for strength but gives the illusion of strength because it increases stiffness. I have added CF inlays to two non carbon hulls and shed a few tears in the process of wrapping every single inch of the deck and floor. With hatches bolted on I stand on top of the hulls, not the sidewalls but one foot in the middle of the deck. They sag quite a bit under weight but make no cracking sounds, therefore no air has entered.

These hulls would have blown out if just fiberglass. Adding an inlay after scuffing a hull for a good mechanical bond won't quite be the same as having a good chemical bond when all materials are still in the mold but you can get close. There are quite a few tricks to working with CF, its easily done if you use a very small amount of epoxy and everything is clean/sharp. A LOT of cheap hulls have come out in the past few years and some have cool lines and nicely designed bottoms, so inlay expertise with CF really pays dividends for us now. FG cloth with pigment can really dress up a hull too if thats all one is after but lets say this, i never store my boats with the hatch on now. I only want to look at the cf.

This is a good thread and some info that I will use, Just goes to show that you are never too old to learn some thing new on a old subject. I have always felt from that I have read and tested that adding CF to FG always make it more strong and ridged. I was un-happy with the last inlay I did on the edges this will help.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

L_41563_7520.jpg

I've researched composites extensively, and deal with some of the top suppliers. The neatest tool I've seen to cut cloth is this one.
A bit expensive, but carbon composites aren't for the "cheap" or those who cut corners. When folks cut corners it shows. The project I saw in the thread looks like someone who wants clean work. I bought this tool to get professional results

http://www.allbrands.com/categories/94/7520-ec1-easy-cutter-handheld-cord-and-cordless-electri

For resin, I use 2 systems that are a bit more advanced than your "local boating store" West Systems. I use EZ-Lam and Pro-Set from ACP composites near lawrence Livermore labs http://www.acpsales.com/Epoxy-Resins.html

ez lam group-01.jpgPro-Set-Group-01.jpg

[Wetter]

i like the fact the EC1 has a carbon fiber look or is it real CF/Kevlar ?
Pro set EZ-Lam Epoxy doesn't seem too much more than G/flex.
i do not live too far from Livermore.
ps The Rad Lab is Rad. my uncle retired from there as a machinist, the stories he could and couldn't tell let your flippn' imagination fly.
any way thanx for all the input.
Now what about rolling and spreading tools?
i am thinking cutting down the lil' finger size rollers and the felt pad style for mopping up excess epoxy.
i believe what ever is used is disposable? also nothing that leaves fibers behind, thought of making a disposable wood wheel rolling tool. (like a mini/micro vinyl floor roller).

[BILL OXIDEAN]

If you clean your rollers while the resin is still wet with replacetone (Tap Plastics) I've found that I can re-use my rollers many times even the plastic ones.
Brushes etc are disposable though..

[properchopper]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]106826[/ATTACH]

I've researched composites extensively, and deal with some of the top suppliers. The neatest tool I've seen to cut cloth is this one.
A bit expensive, but carbon composites aren't for the "cheap" or those who cut corners. When folks cut corners it shows. The project I saw in the thread looks like someone who wants clean work. I bought this tool to get professional results

http://www.allbrands.com/categories/94/7520-ec1-easy-cutter-handheld-cord-and-cordless-electri

For resin, I use 2 systems that are a bit more advanced than your "local boating store" West Systems. I use EZ-Lam and Pro-Set from ACP composites near lawrence Livermore labs http://www.acpsales.com/Epoxy-Resins.html

[ATTACH=CONFIG]106827[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]106828[/ATTACH]

Hey Bill,

You got me, Man ! I'm "on the cheap" and thusly have need to cut corners. I had to "cut corners" on this inlay and your right, it shows (what a mess, Huh ?)

DSC04916.JPG

Used a set of "corner cutting / on the cheap" low buck sheet metal shears which worked very cleanly. Plus, (oh the horror) employed West Systems G/Flex (which holds full sized yachts together) from the shamefully unadvanced "local boating store" [West Marine] which, while not in proximity to anything as advanced (and by proximity irrelevant) as Livermore Labs BUT was adjacent to a really fine titty bar

[Savage Skidoo]

well tittys and beer it is , i'm cutt'n corners like you properchopper

[keithbradley]

West Systems and Pro-Set are actually made by the same people, and the entire Pro-Set line pictured above was discontinued at least a year ago. If you're still buying Pro-Set, make sure you're not paying full price for it...

Bill, I have a couple gallons of Pro-Set 135 here, along with a couple different Pro-Set hardeners. If you're interested in it I would be willing to sell it for less than what you're paying now, just let me know.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

My goodness, you guys once again have proven me to put out false information

You're right Tony, garden shears are the professional choice and found in most any hight tech composites facility these days.
Since EZ-Lam is used in spacecraft, medical equipment, and top secret government projects that are protecting folks lives from radiation, you're better off with west systems since popeye uses it on his yacht

No, I don't want a gallon of stale Pro-set. I prefer EZ-Lam.
Those who wish to have superior results can follow my recommendations, those who want average results can use average methods and materials.
Can any of you doubting what I say explain to me what sizing is, and its relevance to which resin you choose? (without looking it up)

[BILL OXIDEAN]

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BTW, EZ-Lam is also used on "Full size" boats, only not on "popeye" yachts.
Take this 800+hp Drag boat I just glassed the tank into with EZ-Lam. Folks trust their tail goin across the water @110+mph with EZ-Lam

[BILL OXIDEAN]

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[keithbradley]

No, I don't want a gallon of stale Pro-set. I prefer EZ-Lam.

It's not "stale". Relative to any other Pro-Set product from that line, it's about as fresh as you will find...it was from some of the last gallons produced. I feel like you took offense to my offering for some reason. You said you liked Pro-set and I have some I'm not using, so I thought perhaps I would be doing you a favor...I definitely meant no ill will...

Those who wish to have superior results can follow my recommendations, those who want average results can use average methods and materials.

With all due respect, your recommendations were in regards to what products you purchase. If you really think that purchasing any one of the three products mentioned (west, pro-set, ez-lam) is what sets one person's work apart from another's, you aren't paying attention. I'm sorry Bill, I don't really know you and have absolutely nothing against you, but the notion that someone will produce quality work because they buy what you tell them to is ludicrous.

Your end product will be much more dependent on YOUR execution than brand loyalty.

[Jeff]

Way to devolve a thread about cutting carbon fiber. Yes Bill we get it, no matter what you are right and if any one says other they are wrong or a racist. I don't know why you are even in RC boat racing, you make it seem like every race you go to is like goibg to a KLAN meeting. It is getting pretty old by the way. Oh and nice cutters, thanks for contributing to the topic.

[iridebikes247]

i like the end of tony's post. with proper prep west systems will pretty much always work. If this stuff is failing there is probably an underlying issue. at the end of the day these are rc boats honestly and one product outshining west systems in such a way that it's just average, idk. I have used high end epoxy from germany that you can't really uh...get in in the states. anyway haven't felt the need to order more and yes R&G epoxy is used in very demanding environments.

the stuff works and looks awesome if you combine 105/207.

[Wetter]

God Dang. just wanna lay some fibers.
i have enough supplies that i will try my sharpest sheers and side cutters, my metal press with as many razor blades it takes and try out some test pieces
G/Flex i got already.

anways...........
Dear Kieth,
where is that tutorial? please.
i brought bubble gum and drinks
and as Whimpy would say"I will gladly pay you next Tuesday."

[keithbradley]

God Dang. just wanna lay some fibers.
i have enough supplies that i will try my sharpest sheers and side cutters, my metal press with as many razor blades it takes and try out some test pieces
G/Flex i got already.

anways...........
Dear Kieth,
where is that tutorial? please.
i brought bubble gum and drinks
and as Whimpy would say"I will gladly pay you next Tuesday."

I will be doing an inlay in a MHZ 114 in within the next week. During the process, I will be taking photos so I can do a write-up with pics.
Doesn't absence make the heart grow fonder anyway?