N2 Classes

[T.S.Davis]

Oh, and I'm building 3 new N2 boats for the nationals.

[Darin Jordan]

Darin, Jeff doesn't realize how attached you actually aren't to N1 classes..

OK...

Best place for kids is limited. N1 will bore them to tears. These kids have video games that are much faster paced than N1. Just prop down a little and let them get used to the boats before you let them go fast. The size to speed ratio on a Titan 29 can't be beat for a kid.

I tend to agree... Not to mention that to truely do an N1 boat takes more than just dropping a motor into a hull... unlike most of the Limited stuff... :)

[Darin Jordan]

Oh, and I'm building 3 new N2 boats for the nationals.

I just asked Fred to add me to N2 Hydro. I don't have that built yet...

I'm already in N2 Offshore... I have that built.... if I don't destroy it at the SAW next month...

I'm already signed up for N2 Sport, as well... don't have a hull for that either...

What the HE!! did I get myself into??

[Fluid]

I am an FE Newbie.. And very interested in N2... we have a couple of smaller places to run close by...I was wondering, when I first started looking into getting into N2 I was warned that to be competitive you really have to get a good motor and high end ESC...Isn't part of the issue allowing sensored ESC..which I understand allows guys to really dial up the power. Do you think allowing ONLY sensorless ECS would help contain the cost and keep the HP down? Also...How about some of the 280 motors out there.. Would they supply enough power and still keep it interesting??

First, welcome to OSE! Second, virtually no one uses sensored ESCs in N-2 classes. Sensored ESCS are only used in N-1 classes. You can program sensorless ESCs to control motor performance to some degree, most will adjust timing at least.

280 motors are really too small for "racing", they have limited torque and heat absorbtion capabilities. They work in very small hulls as I've used them in 17" cats, but for a 27" boat (maximum N-2 limit) they will be over-stressed and fail. Better to use the larger format motors for better performance and longer motor life.



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[BILL OXIDEAN]

[QUOTE=Darin Jordan;527754]Boat is at the bottom of Legg Lake, so we'll never know for sure. I can say, having witnessed the teching of several of his boats, that the packs always measured within the legal limits after the runs... That little boat was amazing, and I was sad to see it disappear..."

Thank you for clarifying that Darin. My boats have been THOROUGHLY teched in both sanctions.
I take it as a compliment to the incredible speeds my boats are reaching on such little power. Couldn't be anything else, because regardless how hard I'm scrutinized, I've never been found to have so much as a hair out of place. I don't need to. Overcharging a cell may give someone an advantage for the time it takes the boat to get set up for a pass, it won't help anyone's score. Teching cell on their way in is a HUGE waste of time. I feel that as long as their within the nominal voltage after the run its all good.

Different chargers perform differently. I've had packs peak out one charger, then stick it on a high quality charger and it says 93pct

"NAMBA does have that hole, however... we tech cells in, not out. Even car racing techs them out... Would make a lot more sense and be very easy to implement."

Thanks again for clarifying
Saw Events have Enough time constraints, with guys who run the clock competing, its hard enough to make as many runs as we need in a day. Add someone volting every boat before every run, and it'll hinder progress. As is you get volted if you break/set a record and that's been working just fine. IMPBA events as wonderful and fun as they are tend to have a bit less attendance than the famed LA SAWS, and have more time to do these things..

[BILL OXIDEAN]

We have at least six N-2 sport hydros in our club. We have limited the motor and prop so performance is very close between the boats. There are actually four different hull types running, speeds are in the upper 40s and the average boat is 24" long....our old LSH hulls. That was the impetus for the class, to keep older hulls running.



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I saw that you guys are running N-2 sport in your club. That sounds great! What are the restrictions? It would thrive in our club. Guys are open minded and our club is growing.

[T.S.Davis]

That's exactly what we did for a couple seasons. We limited can size and kv. Most were running around 5000kv. Like a Feigeo 7s......I think. Can't remember the exact motor that was popular. The old 24" Vipers are a scream on that power. Then guys just got tired of it. Not sure why that was. Now it's P Limited everything with a few psycho classes mixed in.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Okay, since you ask I will think about it. My first thought - how many volts was Wilmer's pack showing when he set the N-1 record?

Personally, I'd let N-1 die since there is no interest in it. It has outlived it's usefullness as a cheap entry level class. The FE hobby has matured and it no longer has a need to be tied to car racing. But that's just IMHO.

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Plenty of interest in N-1. N-1 aint hurtin' nobody except those that despise the fact that I do well in that class : )
Folks tend to forget thats not the ONLY class I've done or do well in.

Also, accusations, or insinuations that my pack voltages "Exceed" standards or that ANY of my SAW or race equipment is out of regulations is an insult to one's self and both sanctions, Definitely not me.
I find it interesting that all my recent IMPBA records have documented both start and finish voltage. All my motors are inspected for a MONTH before I can even see them after the event but you still question my voltage.

NAMBA techs ALL my equipment on the spot at SAW events. Not sure why all my stuff is so scrutinized so tough in both sanctions (Although I've got a strong idea), I've NEVER been found to have anything out of order in the 13years I've been racing.
I'm an open book and don't need any "unfair advantages" and that's NO discred to NAMBA. They don't tech me in any unesecary or unfair way down there at Legg and things run smooth. I don't blame anyone for a hardcore tech on a boat so tiny going so fast..

If you're gonna' bring ME up, bring up the TRUTH!!!

The truth is I dedicate myself to this stuff WAY more than most. I do well and go puzzlingly fast with boats BECAUSE I PRACTICE DAILY.
I'm up at 5:30am right now and most every morning waiting for the crack of dawn to run passes on glass to record data and guess what? It aint an N-1, or N-2 anything on my bench this morning..

"Cheap shots" at my accomplishments are only a means of discrediting my hard work and God given talent. It all reminds me of the old Black inventors like George Washington Carver, or the person who ACTUALLY discovered electricity.

Here's a SMALL list of things blacks invented, but never given cred for.

air conditioning unit: Frederick M. Jones; July 12, 1949
almanac: Benjamin Banneker; Approx 1791
auto cut-off switch: Granville T. Woods; January 1,1839
auto fishing devise: G. Cook; May 30, 1899
automatic gear shift: Richard Spikes; February 28, 1932
baby buggy: W.H. Richardson; June 18, 1899
bicycle frame: L.R. Johnson; Octber 10, 1899
biscuit cutter: A.P. Ashbourne; November 30, 1875
blood plasma bag: Charles Drew; Approx. 1945
cellular phone: Henry T. Sampson; July 6, 1971
chamber commode: T. Elkins; January 3, 1897
clothes dryer: G. T. Sampson; June 6, 1862
curtain rod: S. R. Scratton; November 30, 1889
curtain rod support: William S. Grant; August 4, 1896
door knob: O. Dorsey; December 10, 1878
door stop: O. Dorsey; December 10, 1878
dust pan: Lawrence P. Ray; August 3, 1897
egg beater: Willie Johnson; February 5, 1884
electric lampbulb: Lewis Latimer; March 21, 1882
elevator: Alexander Miles; October 11, 1867
eye protector: P. Johnson; November 2, 1880
fire escape ladder: J. W. Winters; May 7, 1878
fire extinguisher: T. Marshall; October 26, 1872
folding bed: L. C. Bailey; July 18, 1899

I've contributed TONS at SAW events, but its usually overshadowed, overlooked, or credit given to someone else that succeeded with a certain technique.
Fortunately, that is only in the small, close knit world of this forum, and FE racing. I've marketed myself in a way that the general public sees me for the hard work and dedication I put into the hobby : )


P.S. I bet you guys didn't know a black man invented the cell phone : )

[BILL OXIDEAN]

That's exactly what we did for a couple seasons. We limited can size and kv. Most were running around 5000kv. Like a Feigeo 7s......I think. Can't remember the exact motor that was popular. The old 24" Vipers are a scream on that power. Then guys just got tired of it. Not sure why that was. Now it's P Limited everything with a few psycho classes mixed in.

That sounds PERFECT. We should focus on BUILDING something like this instead of Destroying N-1
Pltd all but destroyed the N-2 classes on a club level and its a shame. N-2 sport hydro is a Wonderful class, especially at a club level.
With those restrictions, a guy could get away with running 1p which would be cost affective.

[T.S.Davis]

Holy crap. You think some of us dislike N1 because of your color? I'm from Detroit. Racists are killed and eaten here. We sprinkle them on toast. Jay said basically that he felt the class had outlived it's usefulness and you think that's a racial slur. That's sick man. Questioning the voltage isn't a racial slur either. An assault on your integrity for sure but a racial slur no.

People don't like it when you do well for a couple reasons.

Because you toot your own horn harder than anybody in the hobby. The degree to which you are full of yourself is unmatched and in the opinion of many unjustified. Joerg didn't toot his horn as hard as you do and he was the fastest man on the planet for quite some time. You told me at the 2010 nationals "I'm the defending national champion. I'm expected to win". It was N1 mono. I've never heard a claim like that from another racer.........ever. None. Not even Junior.

Then there's the outrageous statements. People can read Wilmer. Do you think nobody will check when you make an outrageous claim? Makes us think sure.........then do a little research and we find we've been misled.......again. Then some worry..........is there somebody reading and actually buying his BS? So they respond accordingly.

This new claim of racism wont serve you well.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Holy crap. You think some of us dislike N1 because of your color? I'm from Detroit. Racists are killed and eaten here. We sprinkle them on toast. Jay said basically that he felt the class had outlived it's usefulness and you think that's a racial slur. That's sick man. Questioning the voltage isn't a racial slur either. An assault on your integrity for sure but a racial slur no.

People don't like it when you do well for a couple reasons.

Because you toot your own horn harder than anybody in the hobby. The degree to which you are full of yourself is unmatched and in the opinion of many unjustified. Joerg didn't toot his horn as hard as you do and he was the fastest man on the planet for quite some time. You told me at the 2010 nationals "I'm the defending national champion. I'm expected to win". It was N1 mono. I've never heard a claim like that from another racer.........ever. None. Not even Junior.

Then there's the outrageous statements. People can read Wilmer. Do you think nobody will check when you make an outrageous claim? Makes us think sure.........then do a little research and we find we've been misled.......again. Then some worry..........is there somebody reading and actually buying his BS? So they respond accordingly.

This new claim of racism wont serve you well.

Nope, anyone can read that you misinterpreted what I wrote.
My point is not N-1 being racial. My point is discrediting my achievements with false accusations.
Nothing racial about it, I stated it REMINDS me of the old days.

Accusing my voltages of being too high is accusing me of cheating Hands down.
Accusing me of cheating is discrediting my accomplishments which has happened to blacks for over a century AND THATS A FACT.

Never in life been found to cheat, that leads me to believe the persecution/accusations are the same as they have been for decades.

I'm not gonna' let you or anyone post lies that my equipment is questionable.
I'm not a hornblower of any sort. I DO in fact have folks jumping all over my posts, but that's to be expected..

BTW, what's with the team TFL? Is everything you post "biased" now because you're sponsored as you accuse me? : )

[BILL OXIDEAN]

"Because you toot your own horn harder than anybody in the hobby. The degree to which you are full of yourself is unmatched and in the opinion of many unjustified. Joerg didn't toot his horn as hard as you do and he was the fastest man on the planet for quite some time. You told me at the 2010 nationals "I'm the defending national champion. I'm expected to win". It was N1 mono. I've never heard a claim like that from another racer.........ever. None. Not even Junior."

Another thing taken COMPLETELY out of context. In any form of racing, there's expectation for a reigning champion to defend his title.
"Toot my own horn"?

Let's look at the threads of all the events I've attended in the last 2-years.
I never ONCE mentioned what speed I went, or hardly even posted after the event except to thank the hosts of the event.
Let old things die.

[T.S.Davis]

Never in life been found to cheat, that leads me to believe the persecution/accusations are the same as they have been for decades.

I'm not gonna' let you or anyone post lies that my equipment is questionable.
I'm not a hornblower of any sort. I DO in fact have folks jumping all over my posts, but that's to be expected..

BTW, what's with the team TFL? Is everything you post "biased" now because you're sponsored as you accuse me? : )

Okay, now I understand. You believe your are being accused of cheating because you are a black person. Much like those other uncredited contributors to history.....that happened to be black. Got it. I misinterpreted what you typed for sure. I thought you believed some of us are anti N1 because a black person was doing well. My bad. Totally different.........I guess. I tried to explain this. It's your attitude that draws extra attention to you and not your race.

Comparing your woes to Alexander Miles may be giving yourself a bit more weight than is necessary. I promise you that every race has had ideas stolen from them. The guy that thought up the mouse gets zero credit. Apple ran with it and Microsoft stole the idea from them. The guy that dreamed it up........nutt'n.

I've never posted lies about your equipment. I have however caught you lying. Just NOT about your equipment.

Not everything you or I post is biased. If we say that a TFL, Atomik, Novak, or Airtronik are the very best most obvious answers to a particular inquiry and make no mention that we're a representatives of those companies then it's disingenuous. If I say TFL makes the best hulls, has the best service, the best designs, and the best technology hands down then I'm an idiot to be honest. If we say, "I've had good luck with these or those and the company has been good to me" at least the reader knows that we're biased. Even if it's true that product x,y,z is the best of of the best we still need to let people take our advice with a grain of salt. Being biased isn't a sin. You just need to be honest about it. I think Brian called his a "shameless plug" once when typing about Futaba radios.

Believe me Wilmer, I know all about false accusations. Made me look in the mirror to figure out why I was being accused of things I couldn't even conceive of. Racism is a new one for me. Never been accused of that one but I sure will be thinking about it and looking in the mirror to see if there's any truth to it. If we're not learning we've died.

[T.S.Davis]

AH HA! Second time in........ever. I have a person on my ignore list. It will be better for everyone.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

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I enjoy this hobby, and everyone who contributes including you Terry.
It would be great to see N-2 classes revived