LIPO fire at the FE Nationals

[detox]

We do a ton of Lipo testing and Lipo bag testing.

We have found that the over charging a cell is puts the cell in the most danger of fire.

We have also found that you DO NOT want to skimp on a lipo sack. If the stitching is not fire proof the rest does not matter.

Just so you know.. we have found HUGE advantages to snaps over Velcro when it comes to lipo sacks.

Here is the one from GP.. (you can remove this link if you need to Steve. Im not trying to sell stuff just bringing forward some of what we have found)

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXZKA2&P=ML

Grim

Lots of testing? How much higher can I go above 4.2 volts per cell? How well do the Grimracer packs hold up to overcharging? Sorry for being so blunt.


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[keithbradley]

Lots of testing? How much higher can I go above 4.2 volts per cell? How well do the Grimracer packs hold up to overcharging? Sorry for being so blunt.


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I know the answer to this one...

You can go WAY over, sometimes. You can also puff a lipo at 4.3-4.4v/cell. Lipos are unstable above 4.2v/cell and impossible to predict. It's really not worth it.

[Grazacind]

Thanks JIM that is what I was looking for.

We know there is a risk so we should have some control measures for that risk. I think having a charging station which everybody takes thier charger and batteries too, well away from everybody with large tubs of water and fire proof gloves and breathing masks nearby is where I hope we would head.

Trust me after working in the high voltage industry for a long time hazard and risk control is an everyday part of life.

Please everybody be careful as JIM put it. Complacency can cause serious injury or death.

[Rumdog]

I see it as kind of immature that people are trying to keep stuff like this a secret. So what if it hurts someone's feelings. It happened, and people should be able to learn from it. Hiding the facts will lead to speculation (gossip). It does more harm than anything.

[graill]

Deleted as requested. JIM

OK I've been beat up enough on this! The FE Nationals was indeed a great, well organized event - lots of fun loving boaters there. But to stuff a sock in my mouth for raising a serious safety issue that could have been a genuine disaster is inappropriate. To require "silence" regarding what happened is BS. For the race director to tell the FE Nationals participants at the drivers meeting the following morning to keep silent about what had occured - including any mention of what happened on this OSE forum is extreemly anal at best. Downright dangerous if this information could have saved someone facing a similar situation.

The fact is, the smoke and flames from an ice chest 1/2 full of LIPOs (at least 20) was a VERY scary sight and came very close to burning up a big buck trailer full of big buck FE race boats, not to mention the physical risks to those brave racers who entered that trailer to try to put it out with dry chemical extinguishers. Inhaling the smoke from burning LIPOs is extreemly hazardous and may have long term impact on those who tried to extinguish the fire.

I am shining daylight on what occured for one reason only: THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE.

Should you have the misfortune of having a LIPO meltdown or fire - FIRE EXTINGUISHERS ARE USELESS. This serious fire was only stopped by dunking the ice chest full of burning LOPOs in WATER.
And try NOT to breathe the smoke. Stay upwind if possible. Eventually, the fried LIPOs will stop burning under the water - yes they will continue to burn underwater - but it still takes awhile & those smoke bubbles are dangerous.

I hope this thread helps anyone who encounters a burning LIPO. To those who would rather I keep my mouth shut - too bad. JIM

Dont let anyone beat you up on this Jim, especially those that told you to be quiet. Kind of telling of the type of individuals that have been hammering you about this and using "respect" or some other nonsense to hide behind. I always told my mechanics there is no such thing as an accident, an act of god is an accident, human failure and a number of failure mechanisms creates what happened at the nats.

Nothing to be embarrassed about either, just an opportunity for a teaching point and a re review of the safety guidelines that were in force during the incident, though it may be they are trying to keep it hush due to the racer insurance and not wanting an investigation among other things, ensuring everyone involved is well versed in the rules and what they were following at the time if they get questioned. May be a reason they were trying to keep you silent. Grin.

[keithbradley]

Hiding the facts will lead to speculation (gossip). It does more harm than anything.

^^^Bingo.

I have already jumped to conclusions myself.

[JIM MARCUM]

Thanks for the support guys. I was getting pretty lonely out here. JIM

[DPeterson]

I was not at the Nats - sure wished I was, but I personally know most of the guy's that were there. There is no cover up.

The gentleman that had the incident does not frequent this site and if he did it really would be up to him to explain to the rest of us the actual cause. Anybody else that was present at the time, or those on this post that are pushing lipo bags, etc. are, or would be just speculating as to what was the cause.

For those of you less experienced that are looking for guidance just follow the suggested handling procedures as identified by the lipo manufacturer, your home club or your racing association.

Good day - Doug

[detox]

Overcharging. How far can they go?

http://www.rctech.net/forum/radio-electronics/640146-overcharged-lipo-how-far-can-they-go.html

[Grazacind]

Well I hope all clubs and associations have got all the i's dotted and t's crossed beacuse an insurance company will come knocking one day.

Lets learn from an incident rather than speculate on it.

If you think it wont happen be prepared for Mr Insurance to bend you over and have his way with you.

[Rumdog]

Good move on post #1, Jim!

[tlandauer]

,
Jim, thanks for being so candid and courageous. I read your first post and know thay your only concern is safety. You had all of us in your mind. I can understand this situation for the owner and respect his wish to keep this quiet, and fellow FE members' willingness to comply. The thing is for me ( and many among us I suspect) ---this is NOT gossip and airing out dirty laundry. It is a reminder no matter how common place lipo is today, we all have to respect its physical characteristics. I for one sometimes think that lipo charger/charging have come a long way and am not up my alert level all the time. I am re-examining my ways because I think I have gotten too complacent.
My heart goes out to the brave members and the owner, I am relieved that no substantial damage occured.

[Doug Smock]

For instance in spec racing you are limited to 4 cell count (4s1p). You are not limited in voltage.

Keith this isn't true in the IMPBA. Can't (won't) speak for NAMBA.
D.

[Doug Smock]

For those of you less experienced that are looking for guidance just follow the suggested handling procedures as identified by the lipo manufacturer, your home club or your racing association.

Good day - Doug

Excellent advice!

[JIM MARCUM]

I'm sorry you didn't learn anything from this thread Michael. What I learned - from 5 feet away - is that fire extinguishers are useless in controling a LIPO fire. That fact alone is worth all of the critisim you want to throw at me.

I'll let my 35+years of R/C experience speak for itself. When it comes to SAFETY, I bow to no one. JIM