Genesis question

[1945dave]

I kind of agree Rumdog, but having a Genesis I don't feel the stock provided linkage is all that suspect. I don't think the control rod is flexing and part of my reason for wanting to run the boat without the rudder servo connected electrically is that there should be very little force against the linkage and servo at all doing this test. A point that I always taught was that rudder linkage always needed to be a pull direction for right hand turns and not a push. By that I meant that if we lived and died by right hand turns we never wanted the possiblility of a control rod bending or flexing under load. If the servo rotation and placement allowed for a pulling (it is called tension) force a piece of strong string would produce a right hand turn. So if at all possible I always setup my boats to rotate and pull the rudder to a right turn position. The stock inline placement for the Genesis did just that. I am concerned however about the nose heavy too wet possibility in this situation. My strut is set so that the very bottom of the strut housing just kisses the table and dead flat flush with the rear sonsons resting on the table too

Dave.

[martin]

If it is the servo not being strong enough or the linkage flexing or anything else going on in this respect causing the boat to suddenly dart right why is it it dosnt do this when the rudder is offset still using the same servo & linkage.

[HYDROJERRY]

Sorry Dave i dont no why the obvious didnt come to me,, my bad i gotcha now,, and just to say my strut was set as you discribed just resting on the table even with the bottum edges of the ride pads,,, but it will be atleast another week before ill get her back together so we'll see!!!

[HYDROJERRY]

Just to make it clear on my boat cuz ive heard it many times now,,, mine doesnt dart wright it just starts bairing wright, the harder i try to speed up the harder it will bair to the wright!!!! Just to help with the info here..

[1945dave]

Gee Martin, is that a question to me? I am convince it is not a matter of a servo having not enough power or even a matter of the linkage not being sturdy enough. So in that respect it would not correct itself offsetting the rudder or not. On the other hand I believe it was you that said you had this problem and it went away by offsetting the rudder. I can't explain that. Actually, I believe the likely cause for this darting situation is the rudder is suddenly instruting the boat to turn via a faulty electrical signal. My belief is if there is no electrical signal possible the rudder will not introduce a steering command. That is it, my whole point precisely. We shall see. I believe this guy switched out his servo with a new servo and still had the problem. This would suggest the problem may be with the reciever, a problem I have seen first hand before. Hence the reason I explained the use of a dremel to test things on a bench. I can't wait until we hear the final explanation on this one. Sounds like a special sitcom mystery.

Dave

[1945dave]

Okay hydrojerry, let me ask you something. Are you saying once the boat starts bearing right you can not correct this manually with left hand steering input? If this is the case we have been going about this all wrong.

Dave

[paultbg]

Hello
I would suspect the main problem is the linkage between the push rod and rudder.
On my Genesis (one week old) that linkage and the grubs used where a big disappointment.
The grub that is tightening is so small that I have to use the smallest hex in the set.
Also, if you set an angle for the rudder (positive or negative) it will change once you start the motor and give some trust (even on the test bench) because for that angle the rudder is hold on position by a nylon bolt.
I know is a break away one but even so....
I am very impressed by the hull itself but the parts used are a huge disappointment.For example I can not remove the drive dog because the grub (same size as above) was so poor that the shape inside vanished on the first try to unscrew...By the way guys do you know another way to remove that grub?
At the end, if you want some good results from this boat, keep the hull and maybe motor and replace the rest with real parts not cheap Chinese replicas. (Shame on you TFL, that NOT the way to go for expensive ARTR)

[1945dave]

Okay my British friend. I didn't know set screws were called grubs. Yes the set screws are small because that is the size as required. I understand with your recent experieces with the Genesis you vote for the linkage between the "pushrod and rudder as the problem. Do me a favor and explain for us not too bright forum members just what is it you feel the "linkage" is failing to do? I might not fully understand just what you feel is happening.

No question you could replace the "cheap Chinese replicas" for hardware and upgrade the quality and value of a Genesis in the process. I don't know if you will run faster but hey, SpeedMaster stuff is first class, I would suggest going with that.

Dave

[paultbg]

@1945Dave
Please leave the arrogance at home; we all have the right to an opinion even it is not such thorough as yours.
And,if you check the actual size of the screw vs push rod you will see that the first is way to small to hold well.
Speaking about how they are called :

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=m2+grubs&_sacat=0&_odkw=grub&_osacat=0

At speed, the push rod might be slightly loose...But that's my humble opinion.
On the other side, do you receive a cheque from TFL or why do you defend them so fierce? Just wondering...

[1945dave]

Hey Paul sorry my message came across as "arrogance". You did answer the idea that the "grub" may not be holding well. I can respect that. My concern at that point would be wouldn't this mean that the adjustment has slipped and would stay that way or get worse? I am not sure that this describes what this guy is experiencing. From what I can tell he seems to say as he accelerates the boat starts turning to the right very suddenly and with strong determination (my wording). for much of this thread we thought he was saying that the boat darted or jerked quickly but he seemed to correct us yesterday saying not so more of a determined right hand turn. I then asked him and don't believe I got the answer yet could he over come this turning problem with added control at the radio with left hand force? Wouldn't that tell us what we really need to know?

Regarding do I recieve a check from TFL? Strange that you would ask that but the answer is NO! My beef a lot of times involves the guys that get on this forum and bash the HobbyKing Genesis and have never even seen one much less driven one. Ever notice how many remarks start with "my friend" has one and ....... You have never read anytime where I stated that everyone should buy one of these it is great. Yes, I will defend mine but each and every post where someone is looking to choose between a Pursuit, Outlaw, Proboat, AquaCraft whatever,I never said consider the Genesis instead. But yes I am very analytical, I am a degreed mech engineer and work through problems for a living. I always listen to other opinions, but don't take it personal if I question why you are think one way or the other just so I can fully understand how your opinion applies. In this case you feel the "Grub" is not holding tight correct? When we hear (if we do) the final answer perhaps you will be right.

Dave

[HYDROJERRY]

I dont no about the original guy that started this thread but im still here and if i could i would test my boat tomorrow but cant so ill reinsure everyone when i get it ready to get wet again ill be back on here!!! Probly still with the same problem but i am going to go over everything ,like new servo, stronger push rod, testing with the dremel and off set rudder and 3 blade prop and straight pushrod with ''pull to go wright not push''' now lets all hugg and be happy boaters,,

[1945dave]

Now you got it HydroJerry. You summerized everything well to the point, all you left out was running the boat without the rudder servo connected electrically <grin>. Let us know how this turns out for you.

Dave

[1945dave]

[QUOTE=
Also, if you set an angle for the rudder (positive or negative) it will change once you start the motor and give some trust (even on the test bench) because for that angle the rudder is hold on position by a nylon bolt.
I know is a break away one but even so....
QUOTE]

Paul, I meant to reply earlier about your concern regarding the nylon bolt. I am not trying to be anything but helpful here and you need to understand that nylon bolt does not allow for any positive or negitive angle adjustment. That bolt is strickly a shear pin. In other words a object designed to hold the rudder down and in place but if the rudder hits something in the water the bolt is cut in two rather than ripping something off the back of the boat. Once this bolt is cut in two you have no choice but to replace that bolt. So back to the concern for positive or negitive adjustment. The only way to do that would involve adding a shim or wedge to change the angle at the bracket. You might tighten the rudder swing pivot bolt that I find most of the time is set too loose. This will help reduce shearing the nylon bolt. Hopefully my explanation helps.

Dave

[limitedr1]

so i read above that someone stated why was it that when an offset rudder was installed on their boat the problem went away. i would answer that with another question...why doesn't mine do it with an inline rudder?? im not sure this was answered later but what radio equipment is being used here? have we gotton a pic of the inside of this boat with the problem...are we sure we are not dealing with a weight distribution issue. i guess to could load her up with batteries and put her in the bath tub and see if one side sits lower in the water. as in just sittin there and the rear left corner of the boat is sitting lower in the water than the right that would indicate a distribution problem. i am also confused by the fact that some of us are pissin over what to call a grub/set screw....has anyone powered everything up and tried to turn the rudder by hand to see if any "freeplay" was present at the rudder, linkage, and servo before feedback from the servo is felt/heard?. so far near as i can tell dave is the only one to come up with an actual hands on test to try to eliminate some possibilities. near everything else has been this guy is a , or the genesis is a pile of crap, scrap it and start over. stuff like that is not needed here. there are genesis out there doing 70-80mph and doing dang good at it. are there better hulls out there???hells yes there are!!! do we all have them.....nope. this is my 2cents and im sure someone will pipe off and tell me im an idiot for something here just trying to help is all. jerry said it lets just all be happy boaters!!!!

[HYDROJERRY]

Thats it Happy Boaters!!!! I personal love the Genesis hull not because its the best made or any of that, to me when i look at real racing boat videos, the Genesis is the only one that looks like a true Mystic racing cat, if you look at the Geico, Aqua Mania, and all the other ones i cant spell they all are shaped just like the Genesis,, besides i just love the sleak shape!!!