Restrictor Plate racing

[AndyKunz]

Its really unfair to us. Not everyone has a motive.

Exactly. My interest is in seeing spec racing grow.

When we started with the rules to create the LSH class (which spawned the other spec classes), the goal was to keep costs sustainable. We went with brushed 700-sized motors. Once almost everything RTR went to BL, so did the spec classes, but I pointed out the danger then that technically, you must consider the ESC part of the motor because of the commutation it provides (ie, it replaces the brushes/timing). What I predicted is exactly what happened - the speeds went insane because, basically, the ESCs were not regulated and regulating the motor itself is only half the issue. The spec classes suddenly became pretty much P all over again.

Andy - What Dog do you have in this fight? I have known you for what 10 years? I have never raced against you and have never seen you at a race.

Doug, sorry you never saw me at your race. I guess that was before you started racing? I've got the shirts, Drobie made sure of that - most say CONTEST DIRECTOR on the back and have Sardine Classic on the front. In fact, I had one of them on yesterday.

What dog? Spec racing is near and dear to my heart. Ask Darin, he knows. Steve can tell you too. I'm not here to sell product, just to give a friendly reminder that sometimes you all should listen to the technical/engineering/physics reasons behind rule suggestions. Skip over the financial stuff. It doesn't bother me one bit that AC has a great motor for this stuff. Like Jay said, properly maintained and operated they can last and continue to perform extremely well. So can other motors, use the ones that work in your boat.

Getting back to the original title of this thread - "Restrictor Plate Racing" - the restrictor plate you guys really need to spec is the ESC much more than the motor. The ESC will deliver as much power as the motor can use ... for a while. Like somebody else said, use the AC ESC as the "fuse" if you want to keep things even. If you allow high-end ESCs then they can do things with timing that allow the motor to do much more than it normally would, and you just priced yourself back into another P class. If you spec the ESC, then it really won't make a whole lot of difference what motor you use, you won't get any more power from it than the ESC will safely deliver.

Even sponsored drivers can't burn up an ESC every heat and get free unlimited replacements. Eventually they have to start paying for the stuff. And if you do it right by spec'ing the ESC, then you can all be on an equal footing performance-wise. Naturally, I'd like to see the ProBoat ESC one of the spec options, but if it means making the classes better than I really don't care what one it is, just so long as it's the same thing as everybody else.

Andy

[T.S.Davis]

Doug's just frustrated. Every 3 months or so someone wants to re-write the rules on us........again........again........again. Really getting old.

Now if you didn't like the motor spec then you voted NO right? Oh wait, there were 3 guys that voted NO so I'm guessing that wasn't the case. But you had a better idea so you ran that, proved it worked, and proposed it as an alternative right?...............nope again. At least Randy's thinking of trying something first. He should get credit for that at least.

Greg, those of us racing and buying spec motors are a teeny weeny itty bitty minuscule virtually non existent segment of the market. If any of these companies were dependent on sales to us they would have shriveled up already. I run the 1800 by the way. It turns the perfect prop for my boat with 9 degrees of timing. I win with it too.

Randy's thread did NOT start off an inquiry about something for his gang to try. He was pretty clear who the idea was for. Remember the big red letters? LOL I know the scope changed but for half this thread many of us saw it as yet another assault on the classes that for the most part are drawing people to the pond. This can't be argued. The numbers don't lie guys. I'm sure that's why Doug's mind searches (he's not alone BTW) for a motivation in all this.

Randy's looking a for a way to make it so his guys can race despite not being able to focus. His guys aren't really interested in racing. Sorry if that's harsh but if they were they would have a meeting of the minds. They need to pick some classes that they are all interested in so they can turn some laps apples to apples. MMEU has been in the exact same spot. Snore. Might as well have trailer queens. We were more about the boats than we were about turning laps. You can have all the high zoot blaster boats you want but if you want to race you have to find something more than two people want to race. The high zoot stuff is super cool but it's out of reach for the majority. Money appears to not an issue for Randy's whole gang. 1/8 scales are proof of that. Build skill isn't really an issue for them apparently.....1/8 scales again.

[T.S.Davis]

The spec classes suddenly became pretty much P all over again

Andy, this hasn't happened.

[Jeff]

Andy, this hasn't happened.

Exactly, there are about 10 times the number of people racing spec as there ever was in p even in the good years.

[Doby]

But I need something to do while the epoxy is setting on one of my cats,
...

You put epoxy on your cat???? While I do prefer Dogs, I would never be that mean to a cat......

[LuckyDuc]

The spec classes suddenly became pretty much P all over again.
Andy

Really!?!? How many races have you attended where you ran under the current P-Ltd rule set?

[T.S.Davis]

You put epoxy on your cat???? While I do prefer Dogs, I would never be that mean to a cat......

pretty good on toast though.......cept fer the dwain bramage

Andy, don't let a few that can't or wont convince you that their expereience is the norm. It isn't. SOME people need something to be pissed about. That hasn't changed about FE. This is that thing at the moment. The majority of those racing them are enjoying P limited. It isn't being dominated by people with crazy ESC settings. And I don't sell anything so I get to say that. haha

[Darin Jordan]

The part I don't like is that we're basically keeping Aquacraft in business by buying the UL1 motor. I'm sure 95% of the people are running the UL1 motor. Sure, you could run the 1800, but you're going to need a prop with 4+ inches of pitch to be competitive. I also know it would be impossible to have several motors, because you'd never be able to tech every motor. But it still comes down to your own club - you just have to decide which motors the club members want to allow. (Andee doesn't think you should be putting epoxy on any of your kitties.)

Greg... In hindsight, I wonder if I'm the only one who thinks that including the UL1 in the approved motor list was a wise idea?? I guess I'll let those who are less "condescending" and less "me, me, me" figure that out...

The cat survived the epoxy... We'll see if he survives the scissor cut that Janell gave him yesterday trying to get a matt of hair out...

[Darin Jordan]

Daren, you are the most condasending person I have ever seen. Try being a little humble instead of me.me.me all the time. You did call me mom. I know with your character you won't leave this alone.

You have NO IDEA who I am, dude... Whatever...

[Steven Vaccaro]

Lets not get into personal attacks and get back on track.

[Darin Jordan]

Doug's just frustrated. Every 3 months or so someone wants to re-write the rules on us........again........again........again. Really getting old.

He may have other frustrations as well... I'm sure you'll hear in time.

I share Doug's frustration. With the exception of the UL1 motor currently appearing to be an outlier in the spec'd offerings, the rules seem to be accomplishing what they were intended to.

[raptor347]

I'm right there on the UL-1 motor. It really is what pushed the speeds over the top in P-Ltd. I've tested all the motor options to see if I could get them to an even performance level. My testing was in riggers and sport hydros.

The first thing that became obvious was the 1500kV motors weren't even an option on these hull types. You just can't put enough pitch in a prop to get there.

When tuning the 1800kV and 2030kV motor setups I found I could get the 1800kV motor up to the performance level of a conservative 2030kV setup. The problem was getting the 1800kV powered boats to speeds that matched the 2030kV setups took a level of prop tuning that 99% of racers can't/won't do. For comparison sake, my best 1800kV combo in my rigger ran 61mph, the best 2030kV combo runs 67mph. The average current draw is roughly equal with power consumption being distributed differently around the course.

Ultimately, if the intent of the class is to attract new racers, we'd be better off without the 2030kV motor in the mix. In fact, limiting it to the 1800kV PB and AC motors would simplify things. The boats speeds would drop off ~10%, performance more manageable for the newbies. The knowledge base required to tune the boats would be much smaller.

And if you want to simplify my life, put in a line banning me from P-ltd competition.

[Jeff]

Yes.yes.yes,I get it.How hard would it be to just have PB come out with a 2030 motor? In roar if a motor manufacture wanted to compete they built a legal motor.
And daren, I do know you.When you were first on the red boards and were brian this, brian that. brian put jelly on his toast this morning, brian had turkey for lunch. We took your avatar photo of you holding your baby and photo shoppd in a pic of brian with the wide brim hat on, it was hilarios, everybody in the midwest giggled.daren, ever forum you are on your post count is like 10 to 1 of other people, ths just tells me how often you feel you need to give your opinion.

[DPeterson]

Jeff my buddy. Darin is not the enemy.

The enemy is a combination of idle time, forums, motives, opinions and passion.

Terry - Thanks for coming to my rescue. Terry certainly said it best. We agreed almost unaminously to a set of rules. Leave it alone please. We all got caught up in the changing technolgy, new rules, new classes etc. The participation level dropped down to a core group of us that stuck it out. As much as I live for this hobby, any more class or rule changes that causes me to have to purchase more items or rebuild boats I will be the first to walk away and there are more of us with the exact same thoughts.

Interesting thoughts on the difference in performance between the 1800 and the 2030. I just put my first 1800 on an 8 lb tunnel running a hugh prop and blew away a 6 lb tunnel running a 2030. Of course I am early in the testing stages.

Carry on gents.

[T.S.Davis]

If I had a dollar for every inciminating photo and creative bit of photo shop I've seen of this group of misfits I could buy a UL motor. There are pictures of the guys from OH in front of a porta potty at a race they didn't attend. That's love right there.