Restrictor Plate racing

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  • RandyatBBY
    Fast Electric Addict!
    • Sep 2007
    • 3915

    #1

    Restrictor Plate racing

    Due to the higher cost and maintenance problems with the UL-1 motors, pro Boat and the other motors we should allow any motor and restrict the speed of the boat with GPS on board. We should find the fastest boat and that is the max speed. Then it would become a racers race. All boats would have to have a working GPS on board at all times. If the boat went over the speed limit it would be disqualifyed.

    Then it would more fair to every one and the old motors that are sitting in the closet could be used! This is for NAMBA ONLY.

    IF YOU DO NOT RACE IN NAMBA DO NOT REPLY


    This addition is for any one that has not read the whole thread.

    OK the point of this thread is for my NAMBA club and any other NAMBA club with the same problems

    Back ground: I had a good group of people before I got sick with cancer. They all more or less went there own way during the two years when I was fighting my battle and recovery. (Less Wilmer thank god he is faithful to my ideals) I have found that I am not as strong as before and can not/do not have the energy to run the races and evan harder to find the time to organize them. So I am trying to fit in to the Nitro races venue due to lack of attendance they offered us slots to race electrics only. Most of my focus is on keeping my life and home together. Unfortunately my business is linked to racing in my district. (and I only say this due to the crass and rude comments made at me in trying to this figure out) I love racing and building things. I do have a group of about ten or eleven people that have different boats. Due to the individuality and the economy I am trying to pull them together with what they have. I sell the motors and I hear what the customers say about the added $20.00 for the motors and when things go wrong on top of it. Earlier in the thread I generalized to save time writing, (to get work done) sorry this takes me a lot of time for me. I was really thinking about how to make it fair speed wise so they all can run what they have.

    The point is for different people with different ability and income to be able to come together and race what they have. With a minimal change of prop and a GPS bring the speeds down to the same as the group. With the guys that have heavy large boats that are over powered we can use GPS and reduce prop and be on the same playing field.

    Oh I forgot we all will be on the honor system about keeping the speed ware the comfort range is best for all concerned to keep interest and growth up. Actually my first plan is to have a tuning session on Sunday before the race and set up each boat to run the coarse. I will find the speed of the boat with my GPS then change the boat to run the correct speed. For a boat needs a bigger motor to get up to the speed I am loaning the person what he needs until he can afford to buy one. If any one is not running the motor, prop, ESC and batteries on the list for them they will be disqualified by the CD.

    One thing that will promote the racing is for me or any one with much higher skills not to win all the races. The lack of ego, argument and greed will help. I like to watch my friends have a good time. Sometimes I like to be among them (run) and some times watch. As we have more people to run then I will not need to race all the classes to have enough entry to make the classes.
    Last edited by RandyatBBY; 04-03-2012, 07:22 PM.
    Randy
    For ABS, Fiberglass, Carbon hulls and Stainless hardware
    BBY Racing
  • Steven Vaccaro
    Administrator
    • Apr 2007
    • 8723

    #2
    Originally posted by RandyatBBY
    Due to the higher cost and maintenance problems with the UL-1 motors, pro Boat and the other motors we should allow any motor and restrict the speed of the boat with GPS on board. We should find the fastest boat and that is the max speed. Then it would become a racers race. All boats would have to have a working GPS on board at all times. If the boat went over the speed limit it would be disqualifyed.

    Then it would more fair to every one and the old motors that are sitting in the closet could be used! This is for NAMBA ONLY.

    IF YOU DO NOT RACE IN NAMBA DO NOT REPLY
    the problem would be the glitches that a gps will have from time to time. I've seen 80mph passes in boats that I know are not capably of much more than 50mph.
    Steven Vaccaro

    Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

    Comment

    • TheShaughnessy
      Fast Electric Addict!
      • Mar 2011
      • 1431

      #3
      I didn't think the point was to have all the boats go the same speed. The manufacture rates the motors at 50 amps, ( the aq 2030 anyway) many racers exceed those limitations and burn the motor. If you want to run any motor why not just run straight up P ? Even if it were a pure spec class, same motor, esc, prop there would still be variables that would allow one boat to be faster then the other. All boats going same max speed sound like communism of boats to me.

      Comment

      • TRUCKPULL
        Fast Electric Addict!
        • Apr 2007
        • 2969

        #4
        This would be the biggest pain in the Butt ever.

        We now have the best Spec racing ever.
        Different people use different hulls in each class.
        In LSO you have Mono's and Cats running 1500 to 2200 KV motors.
        All boats run close to the same speed.

        What is wrong with it??

        Larry
        Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
        Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
        Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

        Comment

        • twofford71
          Member
          • Jun 2009
          • 95

          #5
          Impose more cost to spec racing?

          Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
          1/10th scale miss dewalt, ul-1 insane fe-30, ul-1 jae 21 rigger, ul-1 powered lynx, UL-1 powerd delta force 26,
          ul-1 sprint cat 21

          Comment

          • HTVboats
            Senior Member
            • Jun 2011
            • 803

            #6
            Top speed is not what wins races. Acceleration and handling are much more important. Total equal setups are on video games. If cost is the issue going to just a full "P" is not the answer. Limiting can size to say to any motor with a maximum 36 X 60 might bring costs down but would make for a lot of new KV ranges and props which would be an advantage to those who do their homework. Is not that what racing is though? Eventually it would boil down to one or two setups that dominate and everyone would just copy. If you have run nitro and bought $600 grenades to keep up with the Jones'es the cost of FE is pretty reasonable.
            Mic

            Mic Halbrehder
            IMPBA 8656
            NAMBA 1414

            Comment

            • electric
              Fast Electric Addict!
              • May 2008
              • 1744

              #7
              Originally posted by TheShaughnessy
              I didn't think the point was to have all the boats go the same speed. The manufacture rates the motors at 50 amps, ( the aq 2030 anyway) many racers exceed those limitations and burn the motor. If you want to run any motor why not just run straight up P ? Even if it were a pure spec class, same motor, esc, prop there would still be variables that would allow one boat to be faster then the other. All boats going same max speed sound like communism of boats to me.
              or Nascar....

              Comment

              • Fluid
                Fast and Furious
                • Apr 2007
                • 8011

                #8
                Due to the higher cost and maintenance problems with the UL-1 motors, pro Boat and the other motors we should allow any motor and restrict the speed of the boat with GPS on board...
                What "higher cost and maintenance problems" Randy? Higher cost than what? Brushed motors? What maintenance problems? I'm running the same UL-1 motor I bought three years ago and am still winning races with it. Same ESC for two years. IME the problem is not the motor, its the racer. As he gains experience he won't be burning up motors and ESCs....if he learns from his mistakes. The guy who sets up his boat the best and drives the best race will win - you don't have to throw big money at P-LSH racing to end up on the podium.

                I like your overall goal Randy, but if you want a "racer's race" then supply everyone with identical boats similar to what IROC did. Otherwise you are kidding yourself that it is a true "racer's race". Restrict the rules too much and someone will find a way to cheat - just like in NASCAR.



                .
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                Comment

                • raptor347
                  Fast Electric Addict!
                  • Jul 2007
                  • 1089

                  #9
                  Randy,
                  OK, my spec rigger hits 67mph reliably on a UL-1 motor in heat trim. Everyone else can now go throw more motor in their boats to try and hit that number. In essence, throw money at it to make up for lack of tuning skills.

                  If my boat is the bench mark and we can run any motor, what's keeping me from swapping to a hotter motor and setting the new bench mark at 75mph?

                  Or do we pick a max speed and that becomes the performance wall for the class? So now I take an 80 mph boat and throw a bit of technology at it to hold it to whatever the magic speed is. It'll be a real challenge to get around a boat that runs right at the speed limit at every point on the course. Especially if you're driving one that only hits max at the end of the straits. The tech is there to build the ultimate restrictor plate boat right now, in fact I have everything I need in the shop.
                  Brian "Snowman" Buaas
                  Team Castle Creations
                  NAMBA FE Chairman

                  Comment

                  • TheShaughnessy
                    Fast Electric Addict!
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 1431

                    #10
                    To me racing and affordable don't even belong in the same sentence, if you don't have the extra 60 bucks to spend on a spec motor then maybe you shouldn't be racing in the first place. Go race motorcycles and that is the cost of a tire, a tire that may last you 3-4 motos, oh yeah and there are two of those, Suspension work, valve work, etc ,etc. In comparison to most other disciplines of racing rc boats are among the most affordable (pine car derby may have boats beat). Even rc cars cost 40 bucks for tires and rims ( which you will need for different dirt and tracks.)

                    When carmichael started dominating the outdoor season, the AMA didn't start making rule changes to the bikes, Instead the other teams started pushing harder to try and catch him. There will always be that super fast individual and there is always gonna be the person to knock them off the top, just the nature of the beast.


                    The overall message here is that if racing is too expensive for you then... 1 stop racing. 2. create more income.

                    Comment

                    • RaceMechaniX
                      Fast Electric Addict!
                      • Sep 2007
                      • 2821

                      #11
                      Since the title of the thread is labeled "restrictor plate" racing it seems obvious if you wanted to create equal power with some freedom of system implement inline current limiters such as those used for F5B and F5D, but scaled down to say 100A maximum and 3000mAh.

                      This would allow a racer to select a motor, esc and prop and it performance all comes to set-up. The downside to this would be the deep pockets and creativity of the few who would tweak settings, rewind motors, etc to get maximum performance given the limitations.

                      If you want to use the NASCAR analogy, in fact teams probably send more money on restrictor plate engines trying to reduce friction than on non-restricted engines. Yes, it might level the playing field but it will still be the teams that work the hardest who will have the advantage.

                      IMO, the spec class has its faults but a $90 motor keeps the field reasonable. In all honesty for boats it comes to setup, props and driving.
                      Tyler Garrard
                      NAMBA 639/IMPBA 20525
                      T-Hydro @ 142.94mph former WR

                      Comment

                      • T.S.Davis
                        Fast Electric Addict!
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 6220

                        #12
                        Curing a problem that isn't there. We're visiting this nonsense again?

                        Stop tossing grenades. Go try it. Prove that you can do it. Prove that it works. Prove that it results in the "fairness" you're after. It won't by the way. Show how it has increased your participation.
                        Noisy person

                        Comment

                        • properchopper
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 6968

                          #13
                          Originally posted by T.S.Davis
                          Curing a problem that isn't there. We're visiting this nonsense again?

                          Stop tossing grenades. Go try it. Prove that you can do it. Prove that it works. Prove that it results in the "fairness" you're after. It won't by the way. Show how it has increased your participation.
                          Hey Terry, There you go making sense again. Next thing you'll tell us : The Emperor has no clothes
                          2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
                          2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
                          '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

                          Comment

                          • Steven Vaccaro
                            Administrator
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 8723

                            #14
                            Want to restrict them? Have everyone use the same aqua ul1 speedo. it will be the "fuse".

                            I would love to see a eagle tree or castle graph on the Brians boat. :-)
                            Steven Vaccaro

                            Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

                            Comment

                            • T.S.Davis
                              Fast Electric Addict!
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 6220

                              #15
                              Now that I think about it........."fair"? Are we still racing? What's fair? Is it "fair" that any of us should have to race against Brian? He possesses skills I do not so it's not "fair"..........I guess. You can't eliminate all the factors to get apples to apples racing. Finding an edge and driving wins races. Some can do both. Those guys must be stopped! kidding

                              The only way you can get close to "fair" is to run a stock out of the box class like SV's or a maybe one of the cats where everyone runs the same exact thing right down to the prop. Even then you can't factor out experience. MMEU has some guys trying this for this season. Near box stock boats. Duplicate props. It's an unofficial class for us. As I mentioned......"prove it works" That's what we're doing even before we ask our club to adopt it. We have zero plans to take it further than that.

                              Some of you have heard this from me before. A wise man once told me that the first race happened when the second guy showed up. The first rule was written by the guy that came in second. Since I was told that I've discovered that if the second place guy comes in second again..........he wants additional/different/better/more restrictive/less restrictive rules.
                              Noisy person

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