Restrictor Plate racing

[RandyatBBY]

Joe stopped by the shop two days ago I have not seen him since the 2008 Nats. He made me feel so good to see him. . John I talk to quite often.

I need to read the center of the thread I jumped over a lot of it due to lack of time. Oh well I will get to it later, I need to go to work.

[siberianhusky]

How do the European guys work it with battery weight limits? Is that an idea that could work? If you had to race for a certain time your capacity would become the limiter wouldn't it? Regardless of voltage?

[Darin Jordan]

Joe stopped by the shop two days ago I have not seen him since the 2008 Nats. He made me feel so good to see him. . John I talk to quite often.

I need to read the center of the thread I jumped over a lot of it due to lack of time. Oh well I will get to it later, I need to go to work.

I would love to see Joe get back into this! It was fun racing with him in 2008. Damn, that guy was a work-horse. Couldn't believe that drivers stand he put up!


Randy, I'm not sure exactly how to get to where you wish to go with your original intent on this thread. I see where you are coming from, I think, and understand your concerns, but I'm just not sure how to come up with a more workable solution for you. The GPS in the boat deal seems very difficult to manage, and, frankly, not a very robust way to achieve what you are after.

I would think that some kind of other limiter would need to be in place. Lohring's F5B style current limiter comes to mind, but, of course, that's another piece of electronics that you'd have to purchase, install, and understand how to use. Might be the only logical way to satisfy the desire to run "ANY" motor... though, a 2215 pulling only 60A would still be competitive advantage over a PB 1800KV motor pulling the same 60A, so I'm not even sure this would help. I guess maybe they might limit it by Watts used instead?? That would make more sense.

One thing I've suggested in passing before, and have discussed with Wilmer in some depth, was the idea of running a "P-Spec" class, where the only motors that are allowed are ANY of the motors listed in the ROAR approved Brushless motor list for 1/8th Scale buggy racing. I think that would be the 550-ish sized motors... However, this still leaves the door open to push things beyond their limits.

Not sure what the "solution" is...

[AndyKunz]

You guys didn't listen to me before, you probably won't again, but if you want to spec the motors you HAVE to spec the ESCs.

Andy

[AlanN]

You guys didn't listen to me before, you probably won't again, but if you want to spec the motors you HAVE to spec the ESCs.

Andy

Not only that but hull, batt and prop....might as well include the steering servo and bec or not.

I think Randy should just build 6 of the same everything boat and bring them to his local race. Then you would have an equal starting point.

[TheShaughnessy]

I would still consider myself a newb, only have two races under my belt and probably only finished 3 heats. From what I've seen at legg lake the Fe guys lack the numbers to have a rookie and advanced class. If there was 30 entries I could see classes working. But 7... Not gonna work.

As far as getting another newb... In 4 years I've convinced two oeople to get a Fe boat. One of the guys eventually sold me his hull, the other is gonna run with me this morning. But he has my old SV27 HULL. That won't work for LSH.

It's hard enough getting a pit man let alone showing up with two other newbs.

I have no problem racing the snowman, if he beats me I'm not gonna cry I'm gonna go back to the set up table. Bust out the prop gauge and start bending. I don't doubt he will beat me for years to come. But the way I see it is that him, Tyler and a few others have set the benchmarks and the rest if the field needs to play catch up.
One thing in n out found was that when they focused on making there good workers great instead of kaking ok workers into good ones was that the less competent will rise to the occasion on their own.
and if they don't maybe u are working with the wrong people. My 02 for now.

[Bullwink]

As a Newbie with less than 6 months in the hobby, I thought I would chime in. First, let me say that I love the passion everyone has about this hobby.

Dave asked if Newbs like me would like to only race against other Newbs and my answer is no.
I can go to the pond by myself now and run all day without flipping and run perfect lines. However, when I get into racewater, it is almost instant carnage but, I keep getting better each race. I don’t get discouraged; it only motivates me to get better. Plus, I just love flipping upside down right in the turn so everyone else has to go around me. (Just kidding)

Reading all of the threads it appears that the original intent of “P Spec” was to encourage more new racers to join our club, by providing a class that has a lower cost of entry and minimal customization to the boat required.
What exists today is a far cry from that. Basically, only the motor is Spec. Seriously? To be competitive one needs a custom built DF/Raider/Insane/Whiplash/ Sport 20. In P LTD Mono, can I really compete against Dave Newland’s 26”DF with my stock Impulse or SuperVee? (Even assuming I could drive as well as Dave). At the AZ Winter Warmups, I believe I was the only one running a Production RTR boat. (Impulse31) In P LTD Hydro - InsaneFE30s, Whiplash, MLB Sport 20s? I could not even begin to build and set up one of these. But, I could very easily buy an AQ UL1 as a start and learn how to tune a hydro.

When I first went into the hobby store 6 months ago and saw the boats, my first thought was “It would be fun to race one of these against somebody”. So coming from my newbie perspective, I agree with Longaballer and Andy. I think P Ltd should be a stock, off the shelf, boat, motor and esc. Very few new guys find OSE and get one of the custom hulls as their first boat. I should be able to go into a Hobby Store buy an Impulse or UL1, change to a metal prop, and drop it in the water and race against other RTR boats. This would be a true Spec Class. The only question would be, will you have enough participation?

Then, if you want to have a “Custom Spec Class” where only the motor is Spec, great. This class would test not only your driving ability but your ability to build and set up a boat. You would strive to find the perfect hull, prop, hardware combo. I’m all for that too.

[Steven Vaccaro]

You guys didn't listen to me before, you probably won't again, but if you want to spec the motors you HAVE to spec the ESCs.

Andy

I agree. A motor can be pushed very hard and last a heat. try that with an esc and the race wont be finished. Every racer knows he has to finish each heat to win. this will tone down the big props. I watched a guy use(and burn up) 3 motors in an attempt to win n1 one time.

[DPeterson]

I really can not believe this thread still has life.

Randy

In time we will have about 12 1/8 scales to run too.

Obviously the issue is not cost with Randy. 12 - 1/8 scales. Really? 1/8 scales? What the heck do these things cost?

Andy

You guys didn't listen to me before, you probably won't again, but if you want to spec the motors you HAVE to spec the ESCs.

Andy

Andy - What Dog do you have in this fight? I have known you for what 10 years? I have never raced against you and have never seen you at a race.

[Darin Jordan]

If this product promotion stuff gets too thick, I predict with a large percentage of accuracy a drastic drop in participation. Been discussed many times already.

Doug... I don't think that's fair... At least not on the Pro Boat or Aquacraft part... NO ONE from either camp has been pushing their products in this thread, or any other, for that matter. Something new comes along, we announce it. Someone asks a question, we try to answer it. But, never ONCE, have I, or Brian, or Mike (Grim), ever come out and pushed out products over other options. That's really not an accurate observation.

You know, as well as anyone else, that the ONLY reason these motors from these manufacturers are the motors being used is because these are the ONLY major RTR companies putting out products that fit the class. The class was built around the idea of using popular and available RTR power systems, not in small part due to making a place for EVERYONE to participate. Got a new RTR from the Hobby Shop, come race. Got an old DH26 Mono, throw in a power system and come race.

It was anticipated that, over time, others may offer boats that fit the power-specs, and they can be included to, as long as the power parameters fit, per the already written rules, though they require CD approval.

Back to Randy's concerns... Joerg, on RRR, layed out a way to go about the classes that would address some of Randy's goals. The basic idea would be to allow 1500/1800KV motors for Monos, and 1800/2030KV motors for Hydros, and then list a few props for each class that are allowed, sharpened and balanced, but otherwise unaltered. Theoretically, this will supposedly limit the amps to a "reasonable" level and protect the motors... Should work fine at a club level, without requiring any extra equipment. The boats could be "amped up" for a National event if the participants so desired, by simply proping up and removing the motor restrictions, therefore protecting their investment.

As long as there isn't a push to move this into the National rules, I would think there shouldn't be any reason to argue about it. Randy was looking for a suggestion for their Club, and it's simply one option. I would think if there WAS a push to make this something at a National Rules level, the uproar would be very loud.

[Jeff]

Guy's, winter is over.Get off thee internet and build a boat or read a book.

[Darin Jordan]

Guy's, winter is over.Get off thee internet and build a boat or read a book.

Thanks for the advice, Mom... But I need something to do while the epoxy is setting on one of my cats, the primer sealer is drying on a new mold plug I just finished, and the epoxy is setting on the transom wideners on my Phil Thomas Stealth...

Did I mention that I'm also going to school two nights a week, and remodeling an 800 sqft. basement??

You don't have to read this if you don't want to, you know...

[Greg Schweers]

The part I don't like is that we're basically keeping Aquacraft in business by buying the UL1 motor. I'm sure 95% of the people are running the UL1 motor. Sure, you could run the 1800, but you're going to need a prop with 4+ inches of pitch to be competitive. I also know it would be impossible to have several motors, because you'd never be able to tech every motor. But it still comes down to your own club - you just have to decide which motors the club members want to allow. (Andee doesn't think you should be putting epoxy on any of your kitties.)

[Jeff]

Thanks for the advice, Mom... But I need something to do while the epoxy is setting on one of my cats, the primer sealer is drying on a new mold plug I just finished, and the epoxy is setting on the transom wideners on my Phil Thomas Stealth...

Did I mention that I'm also going to school two nights a week, and remodeling an 800 sqft. basement??

You don't have to read this if you don't want to, you know...

Daren, you are the most condasending person I have ever seen. Try being a little humble instead of me.me.me all the time. You did call me mom. I know with your character you won't leave this alone.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Here is my observation and recomendation to those responding: Randy BBY is interested in selling hulls. Bill Oxidean is interested in selling the Novac crap. Others are involved with various vendors such as Proboat, Aquacraft, Futaba etc, etc. This is not a spectator sport such as the NFL, NBA, NCAA, etc., that derives income from advertising and product promotion. I suggest you all consider some caution. If this product promotion stuff gets too thick, I predict with a large percentage of accuracy a drastic drop in participation. Been discussed many times already.

Its really unfair to us. Not everyone has a motive.