VS-1 with Scorpion outrunner

[properchopper]

Lots of good "food for thought" here. Basically, If one examines the thinking behind spec classes, two main thoughts stand out ; A level playing field with motor specs being in the same "ballpark" , and price accessability. Interestingly, a Scorpion costs
$ 70.00 at Southriverrc ; A UL-1 motor @ $59.95 and a water jacket @ around $ 19.95 costs a little more.
Since, at this point, what qualifies as a legal spec motor and speed control rests in the hands of the clubs running the class - that is until a consensus is arrived at by the major sanctioning org's. I'd imagine that this will ultimately and inevitably need addressing. ( I'll opt out of this wrestling match citing Senior Senility as an excuse )
All things being equal [ partial pun intended ], Spec class is loads of FUN !!

Hopefully the Pacific Northwest guys, where spec racing is alive and quite well will chime in.

Final thought : Jan's Dark Horse with a UL-1 motor/SC ran splendidly. With the Scorpion motor and non-cooled AQ speed control it seemed equal to if not a little faster, and the SC wasn't even warm. I'll get the VS-1/Scorp wet in a day or two & report on my results.

[Flying Scotsman]

I agree, for certain applications they are excellent!

Jan, explain further...tunnel and hydro designs up to 28" in length or?

Douggie

[Darin Jordan]

I good set of spec rules that can adapt to simple change is likely the key to the “meat and potatoes racing”

I've been trying to push for this in NAMBA, Mike... but getting people onboard is a problem, as is getting people to LET GO of the past and embrace a fresh outlook...

Let's face it... the current NAMBA FE rules are a mess... LSH and LSO don't even exist anymore, though the names keep getting recycled through various interations of this "spec" motor racing...

For our club... the "intent" of this P-Spec class was to create a class structure where hulls were open, but motors were restricted to one of those on a list... The list was determined partially based on what was currently available in the RTR market and that came in RTR boats that would drop into an existing class.

The idea being that people could purchase a RTR and come right out and race, and be fairly competitive... As the bug hits, they could upgrade the hull and transfer the power system if they like to get more into the hobby...

Need for spares would be reduced because of the similarity from setup to setup, and every hull-type would be represented...

The class lineup for our club this season centered around the following:

P-Spec Sport Hydro (Club legal LSH, NAMBA legal P-Sport Hydro)
P-Spec OPC Tunnel (NAMBA legal P-OPC)
P-Spec Hydro (NAMBA legal P-Hydro)
P-Spec Offshore (Club legal LSO, NAMBA legal P-Mono, P-Offshore)
Spec-SV27 (Club legal LSO, NAMBA legal P-Mono, P-Offshore)
1/10th Scale (Legal NAMBA 1/10th scale, which uses SV27, BJ26, or HiMax motors)

In addition, we offered P-Mono, N2-Mono, and N2-Sport... Only P-Mono got any additional interest.

Every hull type was represented and everyone had a great time with this format... Very few power system failures, and each class presented it's own challenges. Our P-Spec Hydros (Spec Riggers) were in the 60's for speeds... Our P-Spec Hydros (LSH) were well in the upper 40s... (mine clocked 53 several times)... Our P-Spec OPC tunnels raced in the upper 40's, (again a couple of us were well into the lower 50's...)... etc...

The format works...

NAMBA currently has WAY too many FE class levels... going back to the days of NiMH cells, when the different power levels might have made more sense...

We could restructures around 4S systems and have something more along the lines of:

P-Spec = up to 4S, spec motors
P-Open = up to 4S, open motors
Open = up to 10S, open motors

And maybe a few specialty classes thrown in there as well... You'd have PLENTY of different classes to choose from, as well as plenty of levels of prep...

Anyhow... back down off my soap box...

I personally believe that FE won't grow until we get a more unified and consistent classing structure that funnels people into fewer classes and fewer power levels... Right now, things are all over the place... and getting agreement on anything concrete is going to be tough...

[Darin Jordan]

On these outrunners... you simply CANNOT just pick a similiar KV for these... they make WAY more torque... I think that you'll find, as I have, that using that torque on the typical hulls in racing conditions is going to prove to be difficult... Especially on something like an OPC hull... You'd need a bigger hull than you would use for the other motors, or something designed to counter the prop torque loads.

Selecting an outrunner of the same KV as say, the UL1 motor, would simply not provide for a balanced spec motor class... the power output is simply too high... and it would be an unfair advantage.

[Grimracer]

The idea being that people could purchase a RTR and come right out and race, and be fairly competitive... As the bug hits, they could upgrade the hull and transfer the power system if they like to get more into the hobby...


BINGO.. from what i know.. this is ..one of the ...maybe the key goal... of Spec racing...

We ALL KNOW they are going to want to go faster.. then after that phase is over they want some good side by side racing... like the pros on this board.. lots are racing Spec power....hum........

Grim

[Darin Jordan]

like the pros on this board.. lots are racing Spec power....hum........

Grim

The other "BINGO" moment that people need to come to grips with is that there are really only a handful of people in this FE side of the hobby who actually understand the tech they are dealing with enough to really make it work... The rest of us ask questions and learn from what they tell us...

As a result, it's VERY rare for someone with little to no experience to get started in the hobby in an "open" class, and have much fun, let alone, much success... without a LOT of help. There really isn't a good "teeth-cutting" class structure for the FE side. The Spec Classes have provided this... in SPADES!

[Ub Hauled]

...
I personally believe that FE won't grow until we get a more unified and consistent classing structure that funnels people into fewer classes and fewer power levels... Right now, things are all over the place... and getting agreement on anything concrete is going to be tough...

I could not agree more Darin... we need to unify things and kiss all the "redundancies" good bye. By redundancies I mean classes that really make no sense anymore with the power levels we have (present LSH, O, etc) These classes need to be either updated, consolidated (like Q, S and T) and meant for FE from FE'ers. Mike, I also think there should be an RTR class involved somewhere.

[Doug Smock]

[QUOTE=sailr;129808] Some of the actions of IMPBA totally escaped logic, like omitting 3S lipos completely, keeping out a lot of RTR boats from competition and thus keeping a lot of new blood from entering the sport.
QUOTE]

No sir, that's incorrect!
Remember the classes are based on voltage not cell count.
3s voltage fits perfectly in the "P" class 8.4 to 14.8 volts, hulls up to 34" in length.
If ya got em race em.

Too many classes?? I don't disagree but as long as oval racing rules spill over into SAWs, the classes need to stay as they are IMHO.

I'm all for allowing additional motors into the P Spec. rules that don't formally exist.
Every year there is a dry spell with the SV, BJ??, and UL-1 motors. We need another option or two that will fit.

Looking forward to a video Tony!

Doug

[Flying Scotsman]

The other "BINGO" moment that people need to come to grips with is that there are really only a handful of people in this FE side of the hobby who actually understand the tech they are dealing with enough to really make it work... The rest of us ask questions and learn from what they tell us...

As a result, it's VERY rare for someone with little to no experience to get started in the hobby in an "open" class, and have much fun, let alone, much success... without a LOT of help. There really isn't a good "teeth-cutting" class structure for the FE side. The Spec Classes have provided this... in SPADES!

Boy is that on the button, I do not race I am a sport boater and my mistakes on initial aspirations when I started in the hobby fell very short of the mark. I was 10 years old at that time. The advent of some very decent RTR boats has changed those mistakes I made, but you will always get people who push the envelope, they are racers

Douggie

[Darin Jordan]

Too many classes?? I don't disagree but as long as oval racing rules spill over into SAWs, the classes need to stay as they are IMHO.

That is another thing that needs to change... I mean seriously... there isn't anything similiar between the two... no more than between NASCAR and Bonneville...

Even the 2-lap stuff needs some revision... 2-Lap Offshore??? Seriously?? What do we learn when the new P-Offshore record is faster than the new P-Mono record... especially when they were set in the same 5-lap run series? Shouldn't Offshore at LEAST have to run a legal Offshore course???

I LOVE the IMPBA's "up to XX volts" wording... that's how I wanted to see NAMBA do it as well...

[Grimracer]

QUOTE]

there is a dry spell with the SV, BJ??, and UL-1 motors. We need another option or two that will fit.

QUOTE]

It might be important to know that as FE spec racing grows so will the production and support for the product.

Its kind of a catch 22.. we (speaking from a MFG standpoint) one can not just barf out lots of extra motors in hopes organized racing of the product takes hold.. we are here for the long haul but like all types of business its balance.. balance the best we can..

And for the record I highly doubt the three motors available now (in RTR products) will be the last 3 ya ever have to choose from.. I know there is more coming! More coming that will fit the current "Spec Format"..

Grim

[Ub Hauled]

Doug, do you like having that many classes in SAWs?
Do you race them all?

[Ub Hauled]

QUOTE]

... I know there is more coming! More coming that will fit the current "Spec Format"..

Grim

Can you talk more about it?

[Grimracer]

soon..

More info might "Slip out" after the race this weekend.

Grim

[Doug Smock]

Doug, do you like having that many classes in SAWs?
Do you race them all?

The number of classes has never been a problem for SAWs as far as I know.
I don't race them all but there are SAWs racers for EVERY class in D-13.
As a matter of fact, there are a couple of more classes out for a one year trial now, "for records only"
These classes will fill the void that was left when the N-1 classes went away with the new rules.
http://www.impba.net/upload/tails/S9W.pdf Starts on page 11.

Doug