Dynamite 3835 1500Kv

[Doug Smock]

I took a stator to the pond a couple weekends ago and showed Smock how it's done. About 2 minutes in, he was giving me that glazed over look. I could hear his brain saying please, PLEASE, just shut up and drive a boat!

You're such a tool!

It's not that I didn't understand, or wasn't interested Amp Daddy. It's that anyone that isn't from LaGrange Ga.could have said it in a fraction of the time.

Guys you just need to know Don and I have a hate / hate relationship, lol ,but we do have fun in common.

Keep it up buddy and I promise it's going to be a loooooooong ride to Michigan.

[donhuff]

Finally getting back to post those pictures and try to explain.

DSC_5784.jpg


It will help you to see if you make the picture full screen.

On the left is a Delta wind, and on the right a Wye. Note the little black thing at the 12:00 position on the Y one. This is a short piece of heat shrink that they put on the "Y" connection (I'm gonna refer to this a lot later so let's just call it the Y).

This Y conn, is where all three of the motor leads come together at the other end of the leads, after going through all the stator slots (slots are the holes between the "stator teeth").

Of course the leads follow a certain pattern depending on whether the stator is wound as a Y, or as a D. Sometimes this pattern is the same for the two types, then sometimes is is different. It depends on how many slots and poles the particular motor has. But then the half wind, ie 3.5D, is totally different,,,,,kinda!

So to wind the Y type, I make up my leads and then solder three of the ends together, to make up sort of a harness. Then I can start the actual winding process. When finished with the winding, the Y is then covered with the heat shrink so it wont short to the case or other wires, and bent over and pressed down when compressing the winding. This is usually necessary to be able to get the wound stator back into the case, and still have room for the end bells to go back in. Some of you have seen one of my motors where I just poke the Y out through one of the cooling holes. It's a lot easier to do it that way cause there isn't mush room in there if you added much more wire that the motor came with, and it makes people ask questions. The AquaCraft is like this. It comes with very little wire in it, and depending on if ya got a good one or a bad one, it may have even less wire in it.

[donhuff]

I'll make several post cause I have a tendency to hit the wrong button and loose everything. That really pizzes me off.




DSC_5785.jpg

In this one you can see that I took the heat shrink off and pulled the Y out for you to see. And BTW, this IS a Dynamite 1500.

You can see how the three legs are brought together and soldered. And the three leads sticking up are the ones that you connect to the ESC.

You can also see how the windings have been pressed flat a little, because the 1500 has a longer rotor/stator than the AQ does, and they are running out of room. Oddly though, they both have the exact same wire size and count, and both are "terminated" as a Y. Hummmmmm??? But they have different KV right? yeah 500kv difference . Actually every AQ I have tested comes in at 1900 to 1950, and the Dynamite is usually 1500 to 1600. It's never dead on as there are to many variables that have an effect on that number. I'll tell you more reasons, if anyone asks to hear it.

But now look at the picture again and notice the space left over in the stator slots. This is where you can "Optimize" the basic motor, by filling in that empty space with copper. This will strengthen the motor in a couple of ways. First by increasing the magnetic field in the "coils" that are made when you go around the stator teeth. The 1500 doesn't have as much room left over as the AQ does because the slots are smaller. And they are smaller cause the rotor is bigger in diameter. This is why the AQ responds so well to a rewind. But there are other things holding it back too.

[donhuff]

This pic shows a D on the left and Y on the right with all the wire out where you can see it. I left the little bit of soldered leads on there so you could see how the "terminate" side by side.

DSC_5786.jpg

Real easy to see how the delta has all the starts of the wires, and all the ends of the wires, connected together in some sort of a pattern. And to make more sense of it let me explain which is what.

Starting from the left side lets say the this is the "start" ends of the wire. It really doesn't matter as they start and end at the same place in a way, but you have to keep track of which is what so you tie the right ones together. This wind is simple in that respect as all three starting on the left are starts, and the other three are their ends, and they stay lined up in order. Then when finished winding, you take any two that are side by side and tie them together. Really any two, even the two opposite ends can connect, and the others side by side connect. I have unwound one motor that was done that way, must have been wound on a Monday???

another shot of the same thing but from the side.

DSC_5788.jpg

Note in this one how the Y wires go, in, skip a tooth, in, then out, in, out, skip a tooth, out.................confusing isn't it?
DSC_5789.jpg


Now the Delta goes , in,in,in,out,out,out. much simpler
DSC_5790.jpg

[donhuff]

Here's a look at the other end of the stator, the PTO end. Not much going on with this end. But it shows you how the 1500 on the right is compressed flat a little. And the delta on the left not so much. There just isn't enough wire in this particular delta to need extra room from compressing the wire.
DSC_5791.jpg

If you noticed, there are not many wires in it's bundles or "turns" either. I think there were only 10 strands of .017" and this is because each bundle, has to go through it's slots, three times, and that's all the wire that will fit in there. This is because it is a 2.5 delta and that's how . If it were a 2 D, then the wire would look exactly like the 1500's wires, only it would have the delta termination. One start and one end would exit the can wrapped together. This is why on some deltas the lead wire are BIG.


For instance, on the AQ motor. I can put 26 strands of .0155" wire in a bundle. And this motor has a 2 Y wind. This means it has 2 turns (like the car guys like to say it).

So the bundle goes through each slot in it's pattern twice. So I can fit 52 strands through a slot. 52 wires are in each lead wire also. BUT if I were to wire it as a 2 delta, and you can do that, then you have the same 26 in each bundle, and 52 through each slot, but then you wrap and solder the ends together so now your lead wires are twice as big at 52 strands each. But when you do this you had better not be holding it when you run it for the first time cause it's gonna BLOW! Cause deltas rev higher, for the same amount of turns, that Ys do. Take the AQ kv of 2030 and multiply that by 1.73 and you have your new kv. Wow 3511 kv times a 4s packs 16 volts and your revving it up to 56,190 rpm. The AQ wont take that, and will usually sling a magnet off the rotor somewhere in the low to mid 40,000 range, at least mine did! And I was holding it. Scared the bageezers out of me too!

[TRUCKPULL]

Rafael

Are you reading this?

Larry

[fweasel]

This is amazing info Don! Thanks for taking the time to type it up. I'm reading though it for a second time already.

[donhuff]

If ya'll have any questions about any of this, please ask. I enjoy sharing info. And if anyone sees something wrong with any of it, please tell me so I can correct my thinking. But I got to tell you that, If I think I'm right, your gonna have a hard time convincing me differently.

I know a couple time I skipped around a bit, but some things need a little background info before they make sense. But usually by the time I get the background info finished, I forgot what I was talking about to begin with.


But now you see what Doug was talking about, me dragging it out in detail. And I talk slow even by Southern standards. If we had been face to face and me telling you this, you'd still be waiting for me to finish!

[30nitro]

Your info is just great...!!! I do have a question though.....I have an AQ 36 mm blue anodized 1500....1800...?? Real coggy motor....not sure which it is.....and really can't tell what wind it is..?? Any thoughts on that....Thank you sir.

[ray schrauwen]

Very cool.

Since one motor has a shorter stack and they didn't compress the windings, would it not heat up more and faster? I've heard that any windings in open air create lots of heat.

[ray schrauwen]

Your info is just great...!!! I do have a question though.....I have an AQ 36 mm blue anodized 1500....1800...?? Real coggy motor....not sure which it is.....and really can't tell what wind it is..?? Any thoughts on that....Thank you sir.

Sounds like an original 1500kv motor from a Super Vee. I could be wrong on KV...

[30nitro]

ray......That's what i kinda thought.....but still not sure which....and what wind and timing...

[TheShaughnessy]

thank you for writing it up Don. What causes the discrepancy in actual kv for two motors rated at the same kv? Same wind, same wire thickness , what gives ?

[donhuff]

30nitro,

I have no idea. The only AQ motor I am familier with is the gold one. I have not been in FE but for about 3-4 years, so I know nothing about the older stuff

[Darin Jordan]

This thread proves my point that the P-LTD rules are a mess, and need to be replaced with simple physical dimension rule.

Will keep you people from over-thinking all this all the time... or maybe not...

I can't imagine how I've had the success I have, having never once adjusted my timing or torn apart one of these motors. Seems like a LOT of time spent on the WRONG end of the boat, when a $25.00 prop and some simple hand tools would benefit your performance exponentially by comparison.