Castle Hydra Firmware

[Ub Hauled]

I think it's not worth arguing over personal preferences, why would you try to convince the next guy to like the same stuff you like... next thing you know he likes your girlfriend as well, LOL

[TRUCKPULL]

Gentlemen...the following is what Castle's engineering department has found regarding the Hydra software versions. We spent quite a bit of time to test this.

"Timing on version 1.03 does not operate as intended. Normal timing is approximately 16 degrees. I would consider this too high for optimum performance on most motors. If the timing was changed via Castle Link the result would be as follows:

Low: 16.25 degrees
Normal: 16.25 degrees
Race: 10.75 degrees
Extreme: 16.25 degrees

If the timing was changed via stick programming and power was not removed directly after Motor Timing was set (in other words the user continued to set another setting such as Cutoff Voltage), then the timing was always set to 16.25 degrees.

If the user unplugged the unit directly after Motor Timing was set, then the user would get the same timing values as Castle Link would set. (16.25,16.25,10.75,16.25)

This obviously was not correct and was fixed in version 1.04. In version 1.04 the timing values are consistent if programmed via Castle Link or stick programming. The values are as follows:

Low: 4.75 degrees
Norm: 9 degrees
High: 12.75 degrees
Highest: 16.25 degrees

I also tested the units on the bench to determine if there were any other issues that may have resulted in excess heat. I ran a controller to steady state temperature using the version 1.03 firmware on default timing. Then repeated the test with version 1.04. As expected, the timing was different between the two. Also, the temperature and current measurements were consistent with timing.

The test running 1.03 firmware had a current draw of approximately 3 amps higher than 1.04. The steady state temperature of the 1.03 firmware test was approximately 3-4 degrees higher (as a result of the increased current).

There are two known 'issues' with the Hydra software.

Known issue 1: When updating from version 1.03 to 1.04 you MUST recalibrate. Failure to do so will cause the controller to not reach FULL THROTTLE (as indicated by the LED not going to a steady ON).

Known issue 2: When stick programming voltage cutoff on either version 1.03 or 1.04 the programming options are 4, 5, 6, 7.2, 9, 12. However, in the instructions, they are listed as 4,5,6,9,12 (7.2 was removed when the instructions were written for the Hydra line).

The customers who are using v1.04, and feel it has caused their boats to slow down and temps to increase are probably split into two camps.

1) Those who forgot to recalibrate their unit after updating. These guys would likely see a very dramatic decrease in speed as a result of not reaching full throttle. They also would probably see an increase in temperature because they were consistently running at 90% throttle.

2) Those who calibrated their unit and noticed a decrease in top end. This was probably accompanied by lower ESC and motor temperatures. This was caused by the timing being 'fixed'. You can see the numbers above, and if the user sets their timing to 'Highest' on v1.04, the unit should run exactly as it did using the v1.03 firmware."

Sorry it took so long to get this data guys...we needed to make sure the results were 100% correct.

Joe would this apply to the CC125 also

Version 1.03
Low: 16.25 degrees
Normal: 16.25 degrees
Race: 10.75 degrees
Extreme: 16.25 degrees

Version 1.04
Low: 4.75 degrees
Norm: 9 degrees
High: 12.75 degrees
Highest: 16.25 degrees

Also I am using Castle link 3.05 right now.
Will the above timming setings change for V 1.03 and V 1.04 with the Castle link 3.12 ??

Larry

[Heath M]

Larry timing values change if you download castle link 3.12.
We need to find out why and what difference they'll make?

Heath

[TRUCKPULL]

Joe

I should have also asked if your tests were done with Castle Link 3.05 or 3.12 ??

Larry

[detox]

Going by Castles NEW chart I bet most everyone was outside the limits:

http://www.castlecreations.com/support/documents/neumotors-castle_boat_apps.pdf

Castle Hydra 120, Neu 1515 1y, 4s1p 4900mah, x442...ESC up in flames after 10 seconds while running in my 27" Rigger Insanity. I will use Hydra 240 with atleast 9800mah next time.

[G Doggett]

What an absolute cock-up by Castle.
So much for their R and D Dept. This should be rectified by a full recall of faulty product.
I wonder how many motors and ESCs have been destroyed in spite of careful owners setting their ESCs to the conservative ' low or normal ' position ?
This on top of the fiasco where the original fine print stated that there was no warranty if used with 4 or more lipos.
I'm afraid I now have very little confidence in Castle and will in future be buying ESCs from Europe or Asia.
I must however thank Joe Ford who appears to have been the only person at Castle to be interested in following up and getting to the bottom of this manufacturing/programming fault.
Graham.

[Punisher 67]

J.A.F.O.........................

Just a flippen Observer......................................

Great topic and good info

[Ub Hauled]

Peter, you must weigh a ton after eating all that popcorn! You are THE observer on forums... "the eye"... uncle Sam...
LOL

Ok, I downloaded software version 3.12 and will use firmware 1.04 with custom settings for timing.. that's right, you can now
use any timing (increments of 1.0) you can desire. Since I'll be chugging along a Miss Vegas with a 1521/1D, I though that
either zero or 1 as my timing should be appropriate. I wonder if since you setting the numbers up timing will be the number you typed in.

Cross your fingers, off to the lake...

[Punisher 67]

Hello Jan

I have to keep my mouth shut most times I have a habit of saying a little to much and them pulling the shoe back out of my mouth later

Good content here definitely stuff that should be addressed

[egneg]

My question is this - why do they recommend a 120a to replace a stock 45a on the sv and the bj - is it because their current esc's are WAY over rated?

[Boatman]

My question is this - why do they recommend a 120a to replace a stock 45a on the sv and the bj - is it because their current esc's are WAY over rated?

I wish CC would chime in here a little more while their product is being questioned. I have seen blackjack esc handle three times what it should purposely just to try and blow it. I would never do this with a hydra for cost reasons and I know it would blow. I feel we may be jumping the gun a bit on downing them for trying. Until the last decade Im sure most boats used brushed motors and heli,plane, were only using brushless technology which are far easier on esc's themselves. They (hopefully) will get it right but trial and error will be eminent until all bugs are worked out. Thats why Joe should be standing by for a bit after laying down that confusing info.

[raptor347]

The hydra 120 is the smallest marine esc they make.

[Ub Hauled]

Ok guys... I am back from the pond.
I ran my MV, 4s1p Elite 5000 35C, Hydra 240LV, NEU 1521/1D with an M447 prop.
I ran pretty much the whole packs and I have to say that there was NO OVERHEATING.
Here is what my Castle Link read:

13.2 Cutoff
Timing = 1
Start up = Low
the curves were default (straight)

the only thing was that I could not measure temps with my "gun" since I was bringing the boat back and lost a prop/shaft... so I jumped on the rescue boat and paddled out as quickly as I could (the MV was 20yards out) opened the hatch right there to check it manually... if I had to guess, temps were in the 90's at best... everything was barely warm after a couple of minutes run.
In conclusion, I think if you install the new Software vr 3.12 and run 1.04 (after recalibrating), set timing to 1 (I used "Custom" then clicked all the way down to "1") on a "D" wind, things should be fine. I will try using a "Y" wind some other time since I had no more time today.

[tylerm]

What an absolute cock-up by Castle.
So much for their R and D Dept. This should be rectified by a full recall of faulty product.
I wonder how many motors and ESCs have been destroyed in spite of careful owners setting their ESCs to the conservative ' low or normal ' position ?
This on top of the fiasco where the original fine print stated that there was no warranty if used with 4 or more lipos.
I'm afraid I now have very little confidence in Castle and will in future be buying ESCs from Europe or Asia.
I must however thank Joe Ford who appears to have been the only person at Castle to be interested in following up and getting to the bottom of this manufacturing/programming fault.
Graham.

Like i said on sunday to you Graham i'm sort of thinking the same thing. i won't buy another CC ESC, although i'm quite happy with my hydra 240 at this point
I think ima get an etti cap bank and add a third water cooled cooling plate just to do all i can for it.
Maybe a castle link as well
Tyler.

[andym]

Tyler I for one would like to see a Etti cap bank on a CC esc. I think they are the week link and a bank like that can only help. Please give it a go and report on the cap temps without the bank and with the bank. Go on take one for the team mate, it wont hurt a bit!!