Namba voting is open. Lets vote in sizes and get 2019 moving. Flame suite on :-)

[T.S.Davis]

what "they" would like to do as an organization by voting.

I'm hearing what you're saying with "they" but you just called for "IMPBA adopt similar rules". Sooooo.....NAMBA votes and IMPBA gets in line. haha Uh huh.

Steven, why 60? Why not 62? 63,64,65,55,50,42?

58 offered a little bit of fudge factor for manufacturing from what is being proven on the pond. 62mm was apparently a ton of fudge factor. But 60......that's not too much. It's not too much......today......... based on the existing offerings. Ever see a Leopard with it's guts ripped out and re-wound for more power? Nice motor.

I get that there needs to be some standard somewhere. At some point there has to be a max. That's what this proposal is. I'm not trying to just poop in the soup. I'm just not sure 60mm is the right max. I did think it was right. Totally believed we were on the path to enlightenment. haha Truth in lending or whatever. I'm no longer certain is all I'm saying.

I still believe we should be able to have a guy buy something off the shelf and be in the ball park. I realize selection is limited at the moment. However, if Lehner spits out a 6 pole 36x60mm motor that's $400.......where does average new guy fit into racing? He doesn't.

Oh, also.....some of our spec boats are right out on the ragged edge of drive-ability already with 57.5mm motors. If a hot new Dynamite 2200kv that was 60mm came along the boats will be even faster? Seems likely. Can we go faster? Should we? 65mph+ limited sport? Sheesh. I mean.....what the heck fir? At the risk of sounding like Smock......jump to P and get it over with.

[dethow]

And what if Dynamite does comes out with that 2200kv that is 60mm long and discontinues the current 56mm motor? And let's say SSS does the same thing?
What are we left with??? The TP which god only knows which length can that will come in.

You're providing a lot of what ifs... but failing to look at the opposing what ifs.

Let's put some questions on you.
What motors are available at below 58mm if the Dynamite and SSS/Promarine 56mm long 6-poles go away?
What are the chances that more future motors are developed under 58mm? Seems 60mm is the most popular threshold.

[dethow]

However, if Lehner spits out a 6 pole 36x60mm motor that's $400.......where does average new guy fit into racing? He doesn't.

Lehner doesn't make 6-pole motors. Niether does Neu.
So chances of them spitting out a product to dominate NAMBA and/or IMPBA racing isn't likely.
It's already been said many time that manufactures pay no attention to us.

The most probable manufactures to come out with 60mm long 6-pole motors (if any were to do so) are Dynamite, SSS or TP. And all those options would be affordable to the average new guy.

[T.S.Davis]

Fine Plettenburg then. haha Plett likely has an 8 pole we haven't looked at now that I think about it. Lehner doesn't make a 6 pole...... today. Neither does TP, OSE, or Leopard. I've asked TP repeatedly. Not sure about SSS. Thought those were 4 pole. That's today of course.

All fair points Dave.

We screwed this up before. Don't want it to happen again.

[dethow]

Fine Plettenburg then. haha Plett likely has an 8 pole we haven't looked at now that I think about it. Lehner doesn't make a 6 pole...... today. Neither does TP, OSE, or Leopard. I've asked TP repeatedly. Not sure about SSS. Thought those were 4 pole. That's today of course.

All fair points Dave.

We screwed this up before. Don't want it to happen again.

Understood
But FYI... the Promarine 3656 2030kv is a 6-pole motor and that is ultimately an SSS motor with Promarine branding on it.

https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=tfl-3656

[dethow]

We screwed this up before. Don't want it to happen again.

BTW... No one screwed this up before.
The current P-Limited rules worked... Until they didn't. As someone once said to me.
And this new rule proposal will work (if passed)... until IT doesn't.

There is no perfect answer to any of this stuff.

Those ARE legitimate concerns you bring up, BUT...
I believe the biggest reason the current P-Limited rules don't work anymore is because of manufacturing changes and a lack of motor supply. Lack of tech-ability isn't the biggest problem. No one was ever caught cheating and no one ever dominated so much that the masses thought there was cheating going on.

I personally believe anything less then 60mm will inevitably lead to the same demise of a new rule set if a couple manufactures stop making what they are now.
While on the other hand... I don't see there being a lack of possible motors within a 60mm limit.

Yes, there may be some room for innovation that MAY surpass the current winning motors. But that will all settle down, the new ceiling will be found and the new preferred motor will be used... until they're not. And someday someone may bring a $50 Leo motor to a Nats and win a National Championship with it. Turning laps with a proper setup and a little luck means more then anything else.

In the end we will have:
a.) motors which will be more limited then Open P Classes,
b.) motors which will be more cost effective then Open P Classes,
c.) more possibilities for RTR/ARTR boats to be purchased and raced without a motor swap, and
d.) less possibility of legal motors no longer being available.

If the 60mm limit passes in NAMBA and IMPBA leadership isn't comfortable with matching then they should do what they believe is right. NAMBA leadership and the members whom made this proposal have heard/seen all the debates and they've made the choice that they think is right for NAMBA. As discussed in Brian's article in Propwash... NAMBA wants something which should not have to be revisited over and over again. That cuts down on wasting resources and frankly... the drama.

[rayzerdesigns]

Really terry.. u were all on board with this.. now you are bashing it?? I’m kinda at a loss for words here buddy..I know you hate NAMBA.. we came up with an idea.. tested it.. was too big.. so lowered the size.. tested so it would allow motors..it’s a simple thing to tech if needed.. period.. no weight.. just a simple go no go size.. it really baffles me how you were on board with this and now you aren’t..something had to be done as the notor availability was drying up.. so here we are in Namba with a proposal that went out to the membership for a vote..where have u gotten or have you even submitted anything for impba?? Sorry if we didn’t want to drag our feet here and have the biggest fe classes just go away..It would be great to have parity with impba..maybe you should work on that instead of bashing what we are trying to do to keep limited racing alive and well..just really baffles and kinda upsets me that all of the dudden you are against this

[rayzerdesigns]

BTW... No one screwed this up before.
The current P-Limited rules worked... Until they didn't. As someone once said to me.
And this new rule proposal will work (if passed)... until IT doesn't.

There is no perfect answer to any of this stuff.

Those ARE legitimate concerns you bring up, BUT...
I believe the biggest reason the current P-Limited rules don't work anymore is because of manufacturing changes and a lack of motor supply. Lack of tech-ability isn't the biggest problem. No one was ever caught cheating and no one ever dominated so much that the masses thought there was cheating going on.

I personally believe anything less then 60mm will inevitably lead to the same demise of a new rule set if a couple manufactures stop making what they are now.
While on the other hand... I don't see there being a lack of possible motors within a 60mm limit.

Yes, there may be some room for innovation that MAY sucrpass the current winning motors. But that will all settle down, the new ceiling will be found and the new preferred motor will be used... until they're not. And someday someone may bring a $50 Leo motor to a Nats and win a National Championship with it. Turning laps with a proper setup and a little luck means more then anything else.

In the end we will have:
a.) motors which will be more limited then Open P Classes,
b.) motors which will be more cost effective then Open P Classes,
c.) more possibilities for RTR/ARTR boats to be purchased and raced without a motor swap, and
d.) less possibility of legal motors no longer being available.

If the 60mm limit passes in NAMBA and IMPBA leadership isn't comfortable with matching then they should do what they believe is right. NAMBA leadership and the members whom made this proposal have heard/seen all the debates and they've made the choice that they think is right for NAMBA. As discussed in Brian's article in Propwash... NAMBA wants something which should not have to be revisited over and over again. That cuts down on wasting resources and frankly... the drama.

Well stated!!

[Steven Vaccaro]

Again, lets not get into the debate all over again.
the members of Namba will make a choice. Its the great thing about having voting rights. And we will see what happens from there.

[dethow]

Again, lets not get into the debate all over again.
the members of Namba will make a choice. Its the great thing about having voting rights. And we will see what happens from there.

Agreed Steve...
We've all debated it and those that haven't... have already read the debates.
It's time to stop and let the vote take place with no last minute lobbying for points of view.

The only reason I chimed into this thread was to answer some of Terry's questions regarding rational for the proposal and to offer counter points to his opinions on the matter. IMPBA guys need to let NAMBA members vote with no more opinions/debates. If the rule proposal is passed and they don't like it... they have every opportunity to do what they want to within their organization.

Have a great weekend.

[rayzerdesigns]

The proposal passed.. the new namba size limit is 37x60 max size..not sure of effective date.. but after nationals.. thx to all that voted..hope to see everyone out racing sokn

[Brushless55]

Understood
But FYI... the Promarine 3656 2030kv is a 6-pole motor and that is ultimately an SSS motor with Promarine branding on it.
https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pr...?prod=tfl-3656

The proposal passed.. the new namba size limit is 37x60 max size..not sure of effective date.. but after nationals.. thx to all that voted..hope to see everyone out racing sokn

does the 37x60mm have a KV limit?
Ray or anyone here have a current full list of motors legal for Limited classes?

[raptor347]

No kV limit. No motor list. Time to do setup research.

[Brushless55]

does the 37x60mm have a KV limit?
Ray or anyone here have a current full list of motors legal for Limited classes?

No kV limit. No motor list.

Okay cool, so going back to my original question for myself and others who may have been away from racing "toy boats" and to bring some clarity.
Keeping it simple, we are no longer concerned with KV or motor weight just size as in 37mm x 60mm and open to all KV within the motor size limits?
sounds easy enough...

[raptor347]

Correct. Simple tech. Tune your setup and go race.