P-Limited Motors - Im going to jump on the hot seat.

[Doug Smock]

The door is open........... just look away Doug. There you go.......... Good boy.

[zooma]

What... what... what...

snip, snip ....................................

Mono and Cat Approximate speed and cost for each class:
P-Limited36 - 45 to 50mph boats at $300 to $500 investment to get in.
P-Limited40 - 50 to 55mph boats at $350 to $500 investment to get in.
Open-P - 55 to 65mph boats at $500 to $1000 investment to get in.

I started a new thread to ask about tuning for speed, but are these realistic speeds among regular racers? They are about 10-15 MPH higher than I and my club members are getting.

[rayzerdesigns]

ok guys..and gals..p limited is where it is..if we cant decide to stay within the limits of where we are..then why even try..i like the ideas of a couple motors..no..not 40mm..p limited does not need to be any faster..if you don't like the class or want to change it..why are you here trying to make your own set of rules?? this started last year..i wont state names..but he went his own direction..and that did nothing but decline racing..and if you truly want to know..im ok with current selection..a lot aren't so we are discussing a bigger motor..plain and simple..we are trying to find a few motors that are comparable to what is approved now..not faster or bigger..period..and im not trying to single you out dethow..but this is what we are trying to figure out..will p limited die off..maybe..but there are many boats and people that love this class the way it is..if you don't...don't race it..again..there has been some testing of petersons tp motor he wanted so bad..but I will tell you right now that motor is way faster than a 2030..prop to prop..boat to boat..not to mention you can prop it up..we either need to keep the current list..or add a few more that are of equal performance..period..or like darin said..leave it as it is..we are trying to be proactive in new motors..not trying to make class faster and have to many restrictions..being prop..speedo or whatever..again I will say I like the idea of tuning props and setups to get the most out of my limted boats..maybe we need to just see on here who wants to keep list the way it is..or add a few comparable ones..from sound of this thread..its to include a coule more motors..not faster...but comparable..and that can be done with testing..and seeing where it goes

[rayzerdesigns]

I started a new thread to ask about tuning for speed, but are these realistic speeds among regular racers? They are about 10-15 MPH higher than I and my club members are getting.

again not trying to bust your balls..but if your club is only getting 30 to 45mph out of limited as you say..i say you need to check your setups..i have seen terrys boats above 45 easy..my slowest limited boat is my mono..and its easily over 45mph..i have seen many lsh almost 60mphmid to upper 50s easily..even at nats this year..with sticky hot water, propped down quite a bit..and were still in 50s in lsh..and cat was right at 50..mono was prob right around 42 44..thats down 3mm prop size from what we run in heat in az..im really looking fwd to nats next year in nice cool water in washington

[rayzerdesigns]

Great news....now I have to buy an additional $500 worth of
Dynamite 1500's to make our 4 day trek to Washington next year,
and thousands in travel expenses just to race toy boats.....lol

better get them before I buy them all up..lol..but darin did say they are still making them..and good thing they are on average 25 to 30 dollars cheaper than a 2030

[ron1950]

I have four extra dynamite 1500's guess I better get a few more before Ken puts in a order lol....

[rayzerdesigns]

lol..its all good..they are still being made as of now

[ray schrauwen]

I've asked the question multiple times in this thread and no one has answered me yet. WHERE DOES ONE FIND THESE? Other then the TP 1950 I can't find any of the other 8 suggested on OSE, Kintec, RC Boat Bitz, eBay or Amazon.

YOU may be able to buy ANY of these, but where do I buy them. I'm not a TFL dealer and I don't have any special connections to manufactures.

As I said before... what does it really say about these motors that no one even sells them? Means no one wants them. Means they are NOT the industry standard.

??SSS Motor? Maybe:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...or_870mm_.html
I think it is but, Monika would have to confirm

[Darin Jordan]

.but darin did say they are still making them..

Well... to be accurate... Darin said that Horizon Hobby said... It's all a matter of sales numbers.

[Doby]

Dave:

There is no shortage of the "new" motors on the list. The "list" is just a discussion that you seem to be taking as gospel for some reason...for gods sake, it still has to go through whatever formal channels and that will take a while.......long while once and if Darin (or whoever) chooses to move forward with it.

I think you need to concentrate on P and step away from the spec classes..

Most of your comments in this thread should be moved to a separate P power thread, they are very argumentative.

This thread is about a certain size motor only....again, move on with the topic or start a new thread to voice you opinions about P classes.

[dethow]

Dave:

There is no shortage of the "new" motors on the list. The "list" is just a discussion that you seem to be taking as gospel for some reason...for gods sake, it still has to go through whatever formal channels and that will take a while.......long while once and if Darin (or whoever) chooses to move forward with it.

I think you need to concentrate on P and step away from the spec classes..

Most of your comments in this thread should be moved to a separate P power thread, they are very argumentative.

This thread is about a certain size motor only....again, move on with the topic or start a new thread to voice you opinions about P classes.

I'm sorry that you think I'm being argumentative. I'm not trying to be. I felt that I was bringing up valid points as to why the current proposed changes will not continue the existing nor help the future of P-Limited.

There's been multiple responses on this thread that describe several of the possible motors being vastly superior to the existing ones.
And there IS a shortage of the "new" motors on the list. The only ones I can actually go buy are the TPs. Even Darin admits that with the current 3 new brand additions we're looking at a single source supplier.

So I guess the only resolution to this discussion is to leave things the way they are and not try to come up with meaningful alternatives? It seems that most don't want anything to change and don't want anything added to the list that's not similar to the existing.

Based on what I've read and seen that's impossible. Basically anything added will be an improvement on the existing. That's how technology works. New motors are going to better then stuff developed and unchanged over the past 5 years.

And last... all of my comments in this thread are in regards to P-Limited motor choices and sizes. How does my discussion of changing the motor size for P-Limited from 36mm to 40mm belong in a P class discussion? This subject has nothing to due with P class and I'd appreciate if some would stop trying to chase me off from running P-Limited just because I don't agree with continuing a flawed system of rules and motors.

And if its not flawed then why are we even having this discussion. Leave the perfect oiled system of P-Limited alone. I'm fine with that and I'm happy to run in P-Limited.

But if we are going to make a change that will ultimately eliminate the use of the existing motors... then why don't we just go ahead and jump to the next level all together. NOT "P" but still a cost effective and limited "P". Or as I said in my last thought before you blasted me for being off topic. Maybe we just keep P-Limited the way it is but develop a new class between current P-Limited and Open P to help make a transition if the current motors do dry up and so we have a place for future RTR boats to run without have to be thrown in an Open P class.

[Darin Jordan]

The "flawed system " comments and the like are why Doby may be suggesting the argumentative part.

Moving back to the topic and focusing on maintaining CURRENT levels of performance. ...

I reexamined this subject a bit, and also received an email or six, and took another look at our currently legal motors.

From a specs standpoint, they are much, much closer to a 36x50 motor than a 36x60 motor. Dimensionally and weight wise.

The inclusion of Doug's TP 3660 1950 motor is what blew the size and weight up, as we tried to match THAT motor. That's perhaps not the correct tact.

Sourcing 36x50 motors appears to be much easier initially. Right here on OSE two of the 3 Leopard motors appear to be stocked.

Likewise, TP sells that size as well.

Hmmmmmm....

[dethow]

The "flawed system " comments and the like are why Doby may be suggesting the argumentative part.

Problem is that I didn't say "flawed system" until after I was already accused of being argumentative.
And how about being told by several to just not race if I don't like P-Limited. And told be several to take my 40mm motor talk to a "P" class discussion.

My opinions on P-Limited motors have nothing to do with Open-P class, but I'm the one being argumentative???

[dethow]

I reexamined this subject a bit, and also received an email or six, and took another look at our currently legal motors.

From a specs standpoint, they are much, much closer to a 36x50 motor than a 36x60 motor. Dimensionally and weight wise.

The inclusion of Doug's TP 3660 1950 motor is what blew the size and weight up, as we tried to match THAT motor. That's perhaps not the correct tact.

Alright... back on topic.

Why are we SOOOO worried about matching up to old technology of 5 year old motors? Seems that this motion is just as flawed as attempting to match or keep up with RTR.

I'm just getting frustrated because the goal here should be to make an improvement, not stay stagnant.

We started with a dimensional spec idea which would have allowed Neu, Lehner and Typhoon into the mix. (Darin's idea which is an improvement on existing)
Then we reduce to a defined list of some specific motors which included TP3630. (Doug's idea which is still an improvement on existing)
Now were looking at going down to 36x50 to keep as close to existing as possible. (Because several want no change and thus no improvement)

Why are we bending over back-wards to stick with these outdated motors?

[DPeterson]

rayzor

testing of petersons tp motor he wanted so bad..but I will tell you right now that motor is way faster than a 2030..prop to prop..boat to boat..not to mention you can prop it up..

Ray - you keep saying this. Do you have some data you could post. This conflicts with our WI. data, conflicts with what QuiteLee reported on post 177 and again with what Greg Schweers had found and posted. Again the TP is not my motor. It was an option we found to work and kept P-Limited alive in IMPBA D4 for 2015. Otherwise the 2030 killed racing in our parts.

Here again is the WI data:

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...268#post595268