NAMBA P-Ltd Motor discussion

[longballlumber]

Because your boats do 21 laps per month? Plus, which generation of motor are you talking about? A motor that took Pete a couple years to injure was replaced with a motor that survived 6 runs. Pete's not doing anything crazy with his setups that I've seen. Although, without data, that might be a ridiculous statement. Someone could have slipped into his house and changed his setup between motors so that the new motor was drawing another 30 amps or something. Cuz that happens all the time.

There are entirely too many variables to answer the "WHY" in Pete's specific case. First thing I would want to see is a data log off of a run via eagle tree or Castle.

You know we did this with Tom's new cat earlier this season. Kept blowing up 2030's his new cat (his own design) using an M445. I asked him if you guys knew what kind of amp draw it's making? At that point we installed my eagle tree, on the very first run it was measuring an AVERAGE of 100 amps. Now how many motors did Tom burn up before we established there was something wrong other than the motor? More importantly how many motors across the racing community have been accused of being faulty because of this same type of unknown issue?

This is what i am talking about regarding data so we can make an informed decision on where to head next. have a COLLECTION of this data would/could help us identify and rage the motor may/may not survive in...


tom cat m445.jpg

[DPeterson]

A lot of insinuations being put out in this thread.

I might not be one of the top drivers in the country but I can put a well tuned boat on the water. Most of you have seen it at one time or another. Since P-Limited started I was able to run my Whip @ 54-55 mph and the motor would come back at 110 degrees. Even in Arizona. This would always piss Sean off. :) I could run my HOR-Pursuit 4 minutes with a trimmed 445 and the motor would come back at 90 degrees. Decided to start this year with a fresh batch of motors and now everything is 130degrees with the varnish cooking. Shame on some of you for insinuating we don't what we are doing.

And then to insinuate how a conversation with Tower Hobbies may have went. I don't call out people or companies in public so I will not go into detail. Shame on you.

The change in motor quality was in deed finally acknowledged by a member of AQ. No more needs to be said, there were changes and issues.

As I have stated there are a number of reasons our small club is going back to LSH, LSO and LS OPC. I have stated 2 of them. LSH, LSO and LS OPC were never RTR classes. These were a 1 motor class. Everyone put this motor into the hull of their choice and started tweeking props to see what we could get. In the meantime it was some good racing. Were looking forward to the prop work again. Not looking for parity or toy boat racing. We are going to push each other around the course. There, now you have a third reason. Only 9 to go.

Mike Ball - thought I read where you sold all your 2030's and went to all 1800's?

I hope you all can get your P-Limited thing figured out.

Doug

[ron1950]

not that anyone cares but I have burned up one pb 1800 in 3 years running (it seemed to burn the wires a little...I would have thought smaller gage wires woukd have fixed the problem) now then I burned up 2 pb 1500 in a modern 10th scale with a 45 mm plastic prop.....this one has me stumped as both were new and didn't last one run apeace... carry-on with the arguments ill just watch... you guys do know that no one is going to win this right? everyone will just get in there little groups and grumble until we get a few more motor choises

[Grimracer]

Doug.. I have to ask.. IF your whip was blasting out 54-55 MPH runs and the motor only coming back at 110... why is that motor not in the boat anymore?.. Truly.. why?
Seems like a killer setup to me.
You decided to start with a fresh batch of motors.. Why?
Then.. Because the new ones burned up did you contact product support and THEN put the old motors back in the boats.. what happen when you did? Did it go back to 54-55MPH and run 110deg?

Really.. I don’t know.. just seems like something is missing….
You don’t have to fill in the blanks but it could help with the discovery of what might be going on.
Grim

[D. Newland]

...
And then to insinuate how a conversation with Tower Hobbies may have went. I don't call out people or companies in public so I will not go into detail. Shame on you.

Doug

Doug, I don't see what you are getting at here. If it's something I said, please let me know.

[DPeterson]

Grim - Unlike Nitro and Gas motors that may loosen up, break in and start running better, electric motors are the opposite. Electric motors get, I'll call it tired. I could tell my Whip was slowing. Knowing it will do the 54-55 I am not satisfied with 50-52. I can also tell when my props begin to un-pitch. Currently addressing that with a heat treatment program.

Did the exact same thing when we ran the SS1's. I started each season with a new batch or when I felt the boat was slowing.

The older 2030's also had the wires entry into the cans looking a little shabby. I threw them all in the garbage. Sorry - I have the money to do that.

By the way - In the manufacturing industry we are constantly replacing electric motors. They get tired. Some of these are like 100 hp.

Carry on.

[Doby]

I get the "tired" thing that Doug is talking about. when I built my Popeye LSH last summer, I put in a trusted, several year old 2030...ran well and I used it lots of times before the NATS this year. At the Nats it seemed to be lethargic. Now, maybe the water in Michigan is more dense than in Canada, thus slowing it down.....but....

I put a brand new 2030 in about a month ago and holly hydro Batman, the boat has come back to life! BUT, it also seems to run consistently 20 deg hotter (about 130) and there is a distinct new motor smell after each run.



How long it will last???....well, we'll see....

[longballlumber]

Mike Ball - thought I read where you sold all your 2030's and went to all 1800's?

That is a true statement and I was referring to our club classes (we don't run OPC in our club, not enough boats). And the OPC has run a 2030 since putting it together. Oh, and I've never blown a motor in the OPC either.

I would also like to add, I also ran the RTR 60amp Aquacraft controllers in ALL of my P-Limited boats until this year. That being said there is only one boat I am NOT running an AQ 60amp controller. For the 2014 season in the P-Limited Sport Hydro class, I started the season with an old Castle Phoenix 180 (with the old Barracuda software install). This was an air cooled controller. For the Nationals I swap the 180 for a Castle Edge Lite 200 (converted to water cooling). I did this mostly for the data logging properties (I can share those logs if you like)

On to the motors – All of the following comments are in reference to my P-Limited Sport Hydro set up. All of my other club boats run 1800’s

The last club race of the 2012 season I put in an 1800 with an ABC H7 to see how it would fair in heat racing conditions with other boats. It went well and the setup showed some promise. For the entire 2013 season I ran with an 1800 and the boat ran very well. It was class of the field for our club races. Just before the 2013 MI Cup. I put a NEW 1800 into the boat for that race. In the third heat of that race I had a controller start to go bad. In the process of the controller going bad, it took out the motor. I didn’t realize it until the start of the 4th heat. That was my last event for 2013 as I took some time away for my own personal reasons.

On to 2013, at the first club race I was still running the 1800 motor. I quickly realized that many club members had stepped up their game and many were as fast (or faster) than my boat. At that point I decided to go back to the 2030 and an ABC H5. That is the same prop I’ve been running since you guys came out to our little pond to race, same hull for that matter too (2010?). I wanted to “see” if there was a difference in race conditions. What I noticed is the boat would carry speed through the turns a little better. So I’ve stuck with it. That is also what I ran at the nationals.

I have burnt up my share of motors and I have readily stated that. However, it’s certainly not at the same quantity and frequency the others have been describing. Heck, I’ve seen with my own eyes at a club races.


I am not sure what relevance your question directed at me has to do with the discussion. I am not sure if you’re attempting to discredit me, my posts, information or data. Are we only discussing the 2030's and the 1800's OK? I am not sure what your point was...

I will say this again. I am voicing my opinions base on the concerns of the hobby in general as a whole. As a racer, I am going to buy and use the equipment that I feel gives me an opportunity to perform at a high level. I will also say it again… I am not suggesting there isn't a reason to be concerned. However, I AM suggesting this isn't an epidemic.

If I left anything out that you would like to know, I will gladly share.

Later,
Ball

[Grimracer]

So.. there is no constant... I think we all knew that.
That SO solidifies the situation..
So you know.. In Nitro racing a big part is engine care.. we can lose a piston fit in one lean run.. if we "push" our motors they too expire early. (I always run my CMB motors fat and happy and my OS Outboard likes it its last day, I beat on that poor little motor like a red headed step child).. I pay that price in my attempt to win knowing full well.. it’s going to cost a C note.. from time to time.
See ya pond side

Grim

[DPeterson]

Dave - not you. Post 51.

Mike - It is not my intent to discredit. I was under the impression you went primarily 1800. But then you have taken a hard stance on the 2030's. I too have tried to find the sweet spot between the 1800 and the prop on various boats and just could not get there.

Sorry for the distraction.

Doug

[D. Newland]

Dave - not you. Post 51.
...

Doug

Ok, got it. FWIW, I know Shaunnessy and I really don't think his comments were about you/your situation. Maybe he can clarify, but I think he was just making a general comment.

[longballlumber]

Dave - not you. Post 51.

Mike - It is not my intent to discredit. I was under the impression you went primarily 1800. But then you have taken a hard stance on the 2030's. I too have tried to find the sweet spot between the 1800 and the prop on various boats and just could not get there.

Sorry for the distraction.

Doug

No worries... Because of the competitive nature of the P-Limited Sport Hydro class, I was looking for better/same performance out of the 1800's with less amp draw than I was seeing in the 2030's. While it worked for a little while is wasn't a slam dunk.

Terry, might be right in a way. I haven't been able to do the same amount of testing and racing for the last couple of years...

[HTVboats]

Hey Mic,
You can run any motor in the IMPBA P class.

Very sorry for the mini hijack fellas.

Good post Chili.

Doug,
I was referring to the rules for P on up in NAMBA and Q on up in IMPBA not limiting to one motor. Except in certain hull categories like scale and sport hydro. A NAMBA legal P can run twins, complying to voltage only. Explains the P Cat record 30 mph faster in NAMBA. The 10000ma limit keeps them out of heat racing not records. Your new T mono should have twins! (really bad crash potential)
Mic

[Chilli]

Easy to explain Mic. Look at the date of the record.

[T.S.Davis]

Jimmy, once you burn one or multiple motors on what you feel is your "normal" prop and you don't think you are pushing you will be less than pleased.

Dave, I ran a 447 all season on my pond. Went to Phoenix thinking don't change a thing. Poof. You said 45x55 max. Tried that and it blew the deck off the boat. Had to drop to a 42x55. I thought like Doug. Fresh motors. The difference between there and here was the water and the motor.

Keep in mind that's the boat that placed in 2 classes at the nats. It's not the build. But not with one of the only two spec motors available today.