Scale

[Speed810]

Thanks Terry and all that are weighing in...

Terry, Doug and Don.......

Saw Terry had brought up the motor specs for 1/8 scale on a new thread here. I really appreciate the discussion and find out the thought process behind the rule. Seems to be some different view points, ALL that make since. Since MMEU has changed over to IMPBA I have been looking at all the rules and making sure that I am within spec on all my boats. I had actually raised the question on 1.8 scale power specs to Terry because I would really like to race my Elam boat not just the MI Cup race, but more this year in IMPBA events, including the Spring Nationals.

As Don and Doug know I had spent countless hours on that boat...(Not to say all the questions that Doug and Don answered for me>>>>Really appreciate guys!!) The boat is the pride of my fleet and turned out beautifully!! The boat also turned out really heavy (20lbs) with the NEU 1527. Both the ETTI ESC and the 1527 burned up in the first heat at the MI Cup race. Figured it was due to the weight and prop selection that I was advised by many that the 1527 could handle. Well after a lot of research and questions maybe that 1527 is a bit to small for that boat. All I would like is for it to be competitive not an 80Mph boat and not burn up motors and/or ESC's.

Really good point on wanting to maintain a scale speed appearance and not get these things going to fast. With the time and money that most of us have into these boats it is always nice when everything comes back in one piece.... I am kind of leaning with you guys on the RTR's that can also be run in this class. Not a real fan of the RTR 1/8 scale running in some of these events especially if they do not meet boat specifications or motor requirements....which most of us take extra time and money to make sure they meet those sepcs.

So when it comes to motor not sure why we wouldn't have them be more in line with the way rules are set via using dia., length, Kv and possibly weight. Like it has been said the line of manufactured motors listed really puts a strain on things for most of us on a budget. And yes that includes me...LOL

Would this attract more 1/8 scales to the sport??....Not sure, but it certainly should not decrease. There is no doubt that these 1/8 scales are pricey and a lot of effort goes into them, but the way motor requirements are listed it does lend it self to who has the money to lunch out on a more efficient motor.....i.e. Lehner. Which in turn makes them more competitive......IM-limitedHO.....

Thanks for listening guys....be interesting to see more discussion...

Mike

[Doug Smock]

Hey Mike & Terry

What motors are you currently running in your Scales? What motor is most common in NAMBA 1/8 scale?

D.

[T.S.Davis]

Now that I think about it.......scale speed? WTH is that? What does that even mean? Totally subjective. You can't put a number on it. Math doesn't really work because the water doesn't scale. We've all been through this discussion.

Every time I go to the real races I'm struck by how far out on the ragged edge these guys are running. Tell them they're going too fast. When I watch our scale boats run I don't think ragged edge.

Scale Unlimiteds...................unlimiteds........... ...uhm...........unlimiteds. "But we need limits" Lets put a max speed on them. Being a weeny now. Are we racing or are we just worried about the "look"? I know scale boats are prettier than most but the ragged edge is the point of racing if I remember correctly.

NAMBA has not had the motor list and we aren't going 80 plus. NAMBA has also likely fielded more heats than IMPBA. Still no 80 mph boats.

This is like all the 100mph heat boats that the doom and gloomers predicted we were going to see if we allowed parallel cells when LiPo came out. IMPBA took it further with no Mah restrictions. Seen any 100mph P mono oval boats? That's because it's not practical. Seen any 80mph oval scales? That's because it isn't practical.

You can push a heavy scale on a 1527 with a tiny armature at a bunch of amps or you can turn a big motor at less amps with a decent prop. The assumption that more motor choices equates to a 20 mph gain isn't what has happened.

Unless you drop down into the 600kv range a Lehner 2280 doesn't have the torque to push a heavy scale. Been there done that. There a reason that guys have run the 1527 since 2006. The Plett has the torque with multiple poles but I've not messed with those at all. Hell of a commitment on a guess since the data is hard to come by.

Doug, 1527 is still the goto motor but once your boat gets heavy forget it. I'm running a 2217 at the moment.

If your boat is heavy and you run IMPBA you won't be able to race it. At the CanAm we had 2 of 4 entries that were legal. Instead of allowing other motors they called us T sport. We all knew what the class was though.

[T.S.Davis]

This is interesting too.

The guys that collaborated on the IMPBA motor list.........take a stab at how many of them are still racing scale? Two of those guys don't even own boats anymore.

[Speed810]

Doug,

Really can't add much here seeing that I have not really had the chance to run many 1/8 scale events. When in NAMBA the past few years the 1527 seemed to be a common motor on the lighter scale boats, but it appeared that larger motors were being used in the more modern scales. i.e. heavier boats. So after all the problems that I had last year and a lot of research decided to motor up. Now that we are IMPBA that takes all that off the table. Now I have a beautiful anchor....LOL

Yes, the club could make special considerations for an event as they did at the CanAm or for this years MI Cup....but that still doesn't make it more inviting or cost effective for those of us that would like to race at other IMPBA events. Have to agree with Terry on the class title... it is called "Unlimited". Not that I would ever look at this scale reaching even 75 to 80Mph....that's just to darn scary.....[and I'm Old].....LOL Plus the investment in one of these boats is a big consideration when racing, certainly don't want to wreck one of these or god forbid anyone else's boat.

But would sure like to have a boat that is capable of having a motor in it that I know fits the weight and prop configuration that will push the boat competitively without burning everything up.

[NativePaul]

Scale speed it the square of the scale factor which takes in to account not only scaling the distance, but scaling the time too (many people (mainly in the car world) forget to account for scaling the time and just divide by the scale factor which is very obviously incorrect, but for some reason believe it anyway). For 1:8 scale you divide the real boat's speed by 2.83, We don't have H1 boats here, so I don't actually know how fast they go, but the H1 site says in excess of 200mph in the straightaway and 200MPH works out at 71mph, the 220mph SAW record works out at 78mph. I guess the scale speeds should be somewhere in the low 70s.

[Doby]

Terry..at the Cup this year...what motors are going to be allowed in the 1/8th scale...the Plett in my (Ressor's old) Executone died a few seasons ago and I'm thinking of resurrecting it, but instead of 10S..I'd like to do an 8S setup (IMPBA rules allow T and S voltages)..Its a light boat, runs really dry..could almost do 3 full heats on 10,000Mah with the 10S setup. I'd love to go with a Leopard of some suitable kv for 8S.

I guess what I'm asking is, will the race flyer state other acceptable motors?

What would be a good kv for 8S? Never done an 8S setup...lots of 10S's..just not 8S.

[Doug Smock]

Terry I get it, sure do. I was very anxious when I ran the Squire for the first time. The boat is heavy +17#s IIRC. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the 1527. I understand wanting (actually needing) more motor for the heavier boats. When I came to the Michigan Cup it was the first time I had seen in person any FE Scales other than my own. Pags boat is a fraction of the weight of mine, I was surprised actually.
There is only one way I could get my boat to really be a problem for him.........more motor. I haven't tried, but I'm sure prop won't get me there without hurting something. Michigan certainly wasn't the place to try it. lol

I understand where you're at Mike, I have the only FE Scale in D13. It sits on a shelf and only runs a few times a year.

I will say this about the Spring Nats. If we get enough 60s to make a class, and enough FE interest to do the same, I will approach the District and racers entered about lifting the motor limit so you guys can run. Nothing would make me happier. I'd love to see and participate in full heat of FE Scales, that would be a first for me.

[ray schrauwen]

I would not push a TP too hard. Just received an email from them saying motors are only rated to 80*C.

My 4070 is now a paper weight.

[ray schrauwen]

Why not a HET? http://www.highendrc.com/index_eprod...roducts_id=210

[Speed810]

Doug....

I hear ya. It would be great to run some full heats of 1/8 scale down there. Exactly what you are concerned with is what happened to me at last years cup race.
Tried pushing the 1527 with to much prop to keep up with some of the other boats and it was hot out....blew both the ESC and motor. Pags ended up loaning me another 1527...propped down and at least got in a few heats on the second day. It was nice just to see it on the water, but it was really not competitive speed wise. Should have the 1527 back soon, Pags sent out for me to be re-wound and all.

Really have a problem and dilemma here.....I can just leave the 1527 in the boat and try to just turn laps. But if I decide to motor up it means replacing the motor mount and cutting out and replacing the stuffing tube because the angle is all going to be different for a 56 motor. It would be nice if I could find out before hand....:) Heck....maybe I'll throw that 56 motor in it anyway and hope for the best in up coming events....can't really run it the way it is.
Hope to see you down there in ATL in the spring Doug!!!

Hey Ray....I also talked with them along with Brian B and Mike at ML Boats. The motor would be the 5660 642Kv on 10S. The 4070 would not do anything for me in this 1/8 scale....From what I understand that 5660 will actually be a great fit for the weight of this boat and still run plenty cool. Power wise I think its going to make you really drive this boat....not just hold the trigger and let it go....LOL

[Doug Smock]

What prop were you running Mike? I haven't strayed from a m cut 450/3.

[ray schrauwen]

Yeah, you need a 56mm motor.

TP works. I had an SSS 5684-1200kv motor in a heavy 40" mono on 6S2P. Ran great and cold. It was a setup to beat on. Almost wish I kept it but too damn big for me anymore. I could crank 57mm props without breaking a sweat. Shoulda kept the motor at least and put it in a Whip 40.

[Speed810]

Hey Doug...was running an cupped X450(3) and when I blew everything I was running a cut back X452(3).
I had run the 452 one other time and it had really come back hot, but did pick up on some speed. Had Mark Shouland cut some diameter out to cut down the blade area. But it was just to much I guess.

[Todd Fleury]

I am all for going with a can diameter and length, but I do not agree with putting a soda can motor in a scale boat. That is not the purpose of the class. It is a driver and gentleman's class.