Starting 1/8 scale T5 build, need critique of my proposed setup

[Speed810]

Morning Nic...

Looks like your on your way to making progress. I use 30min Z-Poxy on a lot of the mounting and gluing of the various components in the boat such as the motor mounting plate, servo ply plate, stuffing tube (with west system filler additive), battery trays...etc. I also use the West System epoxy with 205 hardener with a bit bigger jobs like coating the tub sections or coating other wood parts where I can use the full amount of epoxy that the West System pumps put out. The Pump systems for West System are great....they measure out the correct amount each time the pump is fully depressed. The bad thing is that if its a small job you will be wasting a lot of good epoxy. So you have to plan well in advance so to eliminate as much waste as possible. I have been using Z-Poxy for quite some time on aircraft also and it has worked very well. You can also thin it down if needed with some denatured alcohol for coating purposes. I only use 5min epoxy or JB Weld in areas that are not high stress areas but have good bonding qualities to other epoxied or fiberglass surfaces.

It appears that the bottom of the hull is pretty well reinforced with the foam core and all. On my wood build I used just some light glass cloth on the motor mounting plate and over the stuffing tube and the hull bottom is only 1/16". Its actually quite strong. Now I did add some carbon fiber in the rear section for the strut mount to help reinforce that whole area.

I had tried to bend the stuffing tube with a tubing bender and I did not like how it came out. It left small little ridges in the tubing and I figured that was just more surface friction on the shaft. So I cut another piece of 5/16 and bent it by hand. You will be surprised on how easy it will bend in your hand. Not much force needed at all. TAKE YOUR TIME!....LOL Insert the straight 5/16 into the 11/32 log tube within 1/4 inch of the motor shaft coupler and have your shaft strut inserted to the appropriate height. [Mine was at about 1 1/8" from the bottom of the boat to the bottom of the strut, but confer with Phil on this particular boat]
Then mark the stuffing tube exiting the log tube below the boat on where you want to start the approximate bend to make a gradual bend that will meet on a straight line to the strut. Bend a little....fit, Bend a little and trial fit until it fits perfectly for you. It was actually quite easy. No Heating is necessary.

Hope this helps..

Mike

[phil t]

okay. I was considering putting a lipo pack inside the actual hull through the tub wall holes, and theyd probably be parallel with the motor or just a tad farther up, but im just going to place them inside the engine well to be sure they will be in the safest, driest position. What is the perspective on mounting a servo straight up vs sideways? if any

Is it worth laying carbon fiber fabric or kevlar throughout the tub in a fiberglass hull like how the wooden builds are? or am I better off only adding what I need essentially and nothing else?

No need for carbon fiber in the engine well, there is 3 lays of 6 oz cloth in those hulls. Dont matter which way the servo sits, get a good mount and epoxy or screw it down. You could mount the servo in the engine well wall too.

[nichismo]

Happy Easter guys!

Speed, every message or post you have made has literally been helpful for me. The motor mount and some more cooling hardware should be here tomorrow according to USPS tracking, so Tuesday at the latest. Im so excited to finally get started, once I have all the holes and cuts made, and majority of components ready to mount, and all the woodwork and internal pieces made, ill be ready to start prep for the paint! Real stoked for that. I cant believe how much my perspective has changed since I first started looking at a UL-1 not that long back, haha. Since then, ive done plenty of research and learned alot, but even more is a better overall understanding of the fundamental big picture with rc boats and hydroplanes in specific. This forum and community really is great, members truly wish to help each other no matter what their background, and even when they perhaps disagree with the motifs behind the person their helping. I really appreciate just how many of you guys have been following through in this thread on how my project is going/will turn out :)

I was thinking of buying some of the radio gear today, im making another order here on OSE, perhaps one of the last one before I purchase batteries and other gear for the maiden voyage. Ive noticed the aluminum anodized servo mounts that are adjustable in width are pretty popular, but I was curious how the servo is secured? It seems like they just sit inside the mount... What kind of linkage hardware do I need to get for the rudder attachment? Here is a couple things I may order if you guys give me the green light... Im sensing I might need something a little more sophisticated maybe?

-2.4 Radio http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...od=dh-futk1300 (I sort of want to get a Futaba as ive heard that the antennas can be virtually nonexistent from view outside and still give great reception, I really dont like the look of antennas)
-Servo http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...od=dh-hs-646wp

Also, I have been thinking of buying a prop balancer, like the Grimracer one. I want to be able to experiment with as many props as I can, especially since I wont have exactly the best ESC around for some time. If I learn to sharpen props thoroughly, then obviously that will grant me the freedom wo purchase several props rather than finding someone to do it or paying a ton extra for pre sharpened and balanced props that end up not being optimal. Thoughts?

[nichismo]

okay im a little confused here now after researching prep work on fiberglass in boats and doing a little sanding on the seams on my hull.

I have read Phils prep instructions several times and have a good idea of what to do now to prep the hull for primer, but I cant even remember exactly why I started reading any articles or discussions on the subject, but what exactly is the difference between the fiberglass hull I currently have, and common hulls that utilize a gelcoat? I was reading that its very important to thoroughly clean then hull of any potential waxes before sanding, which I didn't realize. Trying to get a straight clear answer on the difference has been very conflicting and difficult, and I see debates all over....

Certainly gelcoat isnt just for cosmetic purposes correct? When I was looking at hulls before I decided to go full blown scale, I was really considering the T5 and twin wing hydroplane hulls that Hydro&Marine in germany make. They look fantastic from a overall shape and aesthetic standpoint, and if they werent in Germany, I probably would have ordered one. But I couldnt stand the gelcoat! After seeing some peoples build threads for those hulls, their pictures looked far worse than the hulls posted on their website, and I couldn't stand the dull, tacky looking color of the gelcoats. and I know painting them would not be an easy task, as the gelcoat doesn't adhere very well obviously.

Anyway, once again im just being paranoid but I want to make sure I do everything right. But for prep, to sum it all up, I basically just need to fix any imperfections like the pinholes and "remove" the seams, then scuff the entire hull down to a dull finish so the primer can stick well. Anything im missing?

[Luck as a Constant]

Gelcoat is the best primer.
Just sand it and paint. Having bare fiberglass is way more work.
I would have gotten one gel coated.


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[nichismo]

Gelcoat is the best primer.
Just sand it and paint. Having bare fiberglass is way more work.
I would have gotten one gel coated.


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so much conflicting info.....but OSE is the best

im hearing a tad moreso that gelcoat is a PITA to paint.

If you have to sand it down, then it requires extensive cleaning from wax. What exactly is all this extra work? This hull looks absolutely amazing, and ive barely worked on it yet, but im not worried as much about making any minor mistakes because I know it will be easily fixable. Gelcoat seems to be difficult to repair too. I feel like real boats like Bayliners and maxums can have a white gelcoat and that be the perfect choice for its situation. But for my scale hydroplane it just doesnt seem right to recieve the hull with a color gelcoat, I feel like it deserves a paintjob thats similar in process to a custom automotive job. and I would assume that whomever sells the hull didnt gelcoat it that color as a primer. When I see the pros and cons of a GC finish, the reoccuring pro and purpose of it is to provide a specific finish and pigmenting being a feature to improve glossy appearence. Why do that if you intend to just use it as primer?

its really confusing! lol. regardless I had enough trouble as it is getting my hands on a race compliant modern hull as it was, and I dont remember seeing much, if any gelcoats

[Luck as a Constant]

Starting 1/8 scale T5 build, need critique of my proposed setup

Because it eliminates the need for primer.
You're overthinking this and reading too much


Gel coat
1. Sand
2. Paint


Fiberglass
1. Clean
2. Sand
3. Prime
4. Sand
5. Paint.


Hope this clears it up
Here are some I painted that were gel coated

I sanded them with 800 then painted.



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[nichismo]

Because it eliminates the need for primer.
You're overthinking this and reading too much


Gel coat
1. Sand
2. Paint


Fiberglass
1. Clean
2. Sand
3. Prime
4. Sand
5. Paint.


Hope this clears it up
Here are some I painted that were gel coated

I sanded them with 800 then painted.

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You painted those yourself? thats awesome! all of them look stunning

I mean why is it the best primer? er, it eliminates the need for primer, but its not just exclusively for that right?

obviously its not important nor relevant right now, im just wondering moreso. I enjoy all sorts of applied sciences with almost anything, it satisfies my natural curiousity.

But I wouldn't have taken up this project if I was worried about the amount of work, clearly. Unless a colored gelcoat would have provided a superior scale resembling paintjob (which would mean it is both far less work and also provides a better finish which seems a tad bit absurd lol), I wouldn't have noticed anyways probably, as I won't be doing the painting and I havn't built enough scale hydroplanes or even rc boats in general to be able to compare.

I dont want to derail the thread but in clarifying what prep I should still do before taking it to the shop, it will probably make sense based off what youve told me. Your right though, im overthinking it, my apologies, I tend to do that alot with numerous things. I just want this to be perfect, it is my first build too >.<

[Luck as a Constant]

Starting 1/8 scale T5 build, need critique of my proposed setup

Thanks.
Yes I painted myself. I paint cars for a living.
It's the best primer because you won't need to prime yourself.
Why bother priming when the gel coat can be sanded easily then painted over?
Gel coat isn't put on as s primer, and can be left alone and used as is.
But it can be painted easily.
Primer needs to be painted over where gel coat doesn't if you don't feel like it.



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[nichismo]

ah gotcha, that makes perfect sense actually lol.

But ya, I really struggled to find any hull in general that was of compliance with the scale rules of most organizations. To be honest, I wanted a 1/10 scale but I didn't even sniff a chance to even get on a waiting list to have one custom made. Since its my first build too and 1/8 scale hydros have more a history and following at the moment, it made sense to just go with the 1/8. I had been hearing a ton of positive feedback for Phils hydros too, and he completed it for me extremely fast, and made a few custom features at my request that I really like :)

Among all the hulls I looked at, the closest thing to what I wanted that has a gelcoat was this T5 from hydro marine in Germany, and although its got decent looking dimensions and shape, its not race legal and at nearly 400$ for 1/10 scale thats probably going to take about 5 weeks to recieve, I ended up never looking at it again. They offer this blue, a yellow/orange color and white. This one in particular looks pretty bad in my opinion.

hm5.jpghm4.jpghm3.jpghm2.jpg

[Luck as a Constant]

yeah, i mean, if ya can't find one with gelcoat then you prime yourself. but if the option is there i always go for it.

[nichismo]

My package from OSE with the new motor mount is waiting for me when I get home from work. Im going to work all evening until bed, I want to get as much done as possible, as I know whatever idea i have in how long I estimate each process will take, I have to be extremely patient and observant, so in the end its all probably going to be twice as long or more than what I anticipate.

I bought green, red, and yellow 3m sanding blocks yesterday, along with plenty of different grits of sandpapers, some JB Kwikweld, 3m bondo glazing spot putty and a putty knife, rubbing alcohol, and several small clamps. I already started very light sanding of some of the side seams on the boat, and marked all the pinholes that I could find so far. I also outlined all the marks Phil had made for cutting. I hope I can get the stuffing tube mounted and basically the whole flex shaft and strut assembly, and motor assembly mounted and curing overnight. I have the day off from work tomorrow so Ill be able to immediately pickup where I left off in the morning. Ill be sure to take plenty of pictures as well.

[nichismo]

Hey guys, just making a minor update. Yesterday I went to hobby lobby and picked up a good amount of plywood and basswood sticks so I can start planning out the electronics box lip and cover, as well as some wedges and blocks for the motor and ESC mount.

it turns out that the motor mount I bought with the ESC mount on the top isn't really optimal for this hull. The engine well isnt very deep, even where the belly pan is and the rails that came with it dont really provide the largest spectrum of adjustment. The overall frame of the mount is too wide and is would force me to take on a far more complex electronics box with a flush cover that can be easily tape sealed. I really wanted to mimic the electronics boxes from Speeds and Dons elam builds, and I have to be able to run a flat lip alongside the walls of the engine well. Its very clear to me now why all the FE builds are with wood kits, and I can see why Don F was mentioning against a fiberglass nitro intended hull for an FE build.

so I am going to be using the first mount I purchased, its actually suprisingly secure and robust, but im still going to add some extra support to the opposite side of the motor. Im going to craft a slight wedge to slide under the mounts legs to create a better angle for the stuffing tube, and im going to have a thick stump inbetween the wedges, shaped and contoured so the motor can sit comfortably on top, ill probably epoxy some rubber or nylon or something on it too. This going to make the whole sealing process I just described tremendously easier. Ive also got an aluminum plate that is perfect for me to mount an ESC to, and im going to have it attached in each corner with aluminum threaded spacers, and then bolted and threaded into wood blocks placed on each side of the motor, so Ill be able to mount the ESC in the same fashion as the original mount would have intended. If I need to get to the motor, all ill have to do is just unscrew the bolts on top of the plate in each corner.

Im almost done sanding the hull, ive nearly smoothed out all the seams around the boat using the coarse 60 grit green pad. I just need to flatten out the back transom and scuff the rest of the surface of the hull. Then ill go around the boat with some filler for all the pinholes ive opened up, and then after I finish drilling all the holes for the hardware and stuffing tube, ill put the first coat of primer

I also found this thread on RC universe regarding a build by another fella from here in Washington, its provided a little bit of insight for my build. Hes using a T6 hull basically from steve at RCboatcompany. Although I would like for my finished interior to have a cleaner look overall, he sort of made me feel as if it doesn't have to really be very complex. He also mounted his lipos in the compartments where the fuel tanks would normally be, however he never really discussed how the electronics are sealed off.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/speed-electric-109/10363104-rcu-8th-scale-brushless-hydroplane-build.html

ive also looked at this thread, along with the gallery linked in the OP for some time now. Gosh that hull is absolutely beautiful! Whoever picked up that entire package for 750$ got quite a deal, I wish I could see how that project turned out!

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...special-for-FE

[Speed810]

Nic....

Sounds like you have things on the move. Be great to see some pictures as you progress. Yes there are always a lot of options out there and you really have to finally make a decision on what will work out best for your application.

I agree with MTD.....Gelcoat is a great primer actually. Worked for US Yachts (Bayliner Marine out of Arlington, WA) for years. Nice thing with the gelcoat finishes is they seal the glass with superior strength and then of course can be sanded and buffed out to a real nice finish. But also they can be easily sanded and painted with various finishes. As said before with an unsealed fiberglass hull there is a little more work to be done, but I really don't consider it to be any more work than a wood hull. What has been maybe missed here in the explanation is that the epoxy / fiberglass resins that are used in building these hulls (Or a real fiberglass boat hull) give off a gas as it cures. As the gases are expelled it leaves behind a waxy type of film on the outside that needs to be cleaned [I usually use denatured alcohol although some folks use acetone] ..then I'll lightly sand the finish to get a good area for primer adhesion. I have done this even on my wood hull build where I need to epoxy something else into the boat that has already been epoxy coated. The whole exterior of the boat will be coated in epoxy then cleaned and lightly sanded before the primer coat goes on. No different than what you will be doing except that the hull has already been coated. Just clean it down, lightly sand, prime, very lightly sand, wipe it down very clean and paint.

Keep us up to date on how things are going.

Mike

[nichismo]

I spoke with Phil regarding prep work and paint (albeit a bit prematurely), and he recommended a couple products that sounded like a good purchase, so I bought a couple things over the weekend. I went to a marine shop near my marina and picked up some 104 West systems epoxy resin and 205 hardener, and I ordered Klasskote primer, catalyst and reducer offline, so once I finish all the component mounting and accommodations, ill be pretty close to getting it painted. However, I think I may have made a little bit of a mess, I never even cleaned the hull at all prior to some of the sanding ive done, I think I may have sanded some dust into the hull.... but ive gone around and opened practically every pinhole I can find. After I finish installing all the components, im going to bondo some of the hull, sand, bondo a little more if needed, then primer with the klasskote (this stuff is pretty thick and works as a filler too, I will be brushing/rolling it on, and more pinholes may be revealed, in which ill simply just use my fingers to rub in a little more primer). I am also going to epoxy the cockpit and cowling together today.

I drilled holes and cut a slot for the rudder and strut assemblies. I was a little excited and perhaps mounted the rudder a little too close to the center of the transom.... but other than that it came out good. I havnt actually installed the strut assembly yet, as I am still filing the slot out to size, but im really happy with how the positioning of the holes turned out. I think I may need to cut the long screws that came with my rudder assembly, as they are long and slightly angled, so i cant currently screw on the nuts for the bottom two screws, as they hit the floor.

I am ordering a new canard as well as aluminum mounting brackets for them from Steve at Rcboatcompany. The canard that Phil gave me seems a tad bit thin to my eye, and the canard available from Steve will be a half inch thicker.

The wood joist I made was for the new motor mount, I just sort of winged it and got a little overzealous, but it can give you an idea of what im trying to do now. Im basically now just taking a 1/8" sheet base, with just two angled wedges to help the motor get to a better angle, or else the stuffing box tube is going to be too far towards the transom to work.

Im placing another order with OSE today, im going to order Hitec ultra torque waterproof servo and a servo stand, some carbon fiber in case it comes in handy, an oil fitting mount for the stuffing tube, and some minor hardware. Anyone have any other suggestions on thigns I may need to purchase?

Also, I have been considering purchasing a new ESC or perhaps just getting a NEU 1527. The motor I have is still brand new, and im very new to driving, so I figured a NEU may be too much power. I figured an ESC would benefit me in the long run and provide a better foundation for any future upgrades I may want. but then again, I could just stick with what I have for now if I shouldnt waste my money (leopard 835kv 5698, SwordFish 240amp HV, older refurbished model)

myhydro.jpg20150411_081918.jpg20150407_064846.jpg20150409_222641.jpg20150409_203433.jpg