The official 36" zelos twin modding thread

[Yellow]

Where can you get the ABC 1814-17-45 props? I didn't see them on OSE.

[kfxguy]

Where can you get the ABC 1814-17-45 props? I didn't see them on OSE.

Contact [email protected] and see who's carrying them. I'll email Steve and let him know to put them on his next order. Also contact Dasboata if you want to buy them already prepared, he may have some. I'll text him in a few hours to see. If he don't he can't get them from abc for you provided abc has some in stock.

[Darin Jordan]

I'm not convinced, after running the 2-Lap this weekend with Rafael, that the -17 rake props are the way to go. Have you tried the same pitch but with the -10 degree rake?

The reason I think this is that, with the -17 props, I had to run a LOT of strut angle downward in order to keep the nose down under the additional speeds. The lack of lift settled the transom more than with the stock prop, which, combined with the extra speed, resulted in some pretty spectacular wheelies down the straights.

I didn't have a pair of -10 props to try, but I suspect that the additional lift of these props would have allowed me to run less strut angle, and would have put more more of that thrust into pushing the boat forward, as opposed to hold the tail of the boat up.

Something to consider trying. I know that Rafael wasn't having to run as much strut angle as I did, and he was using the stock, X442 based props.

[Rafael_Lopez]

I only ran 1mm of negative angle with the stock props. I saw the need to add .5 more negative angle with only 2 packs, and the props that Darin cut some rake in to. If I were just running around for fun, I would have run my struts neutral and dealt with the possibility of flipping backwards or letting off the throttle at the first sign of lift. But because this was a timed event, I didn't want to spend more time retrieving than running.

I think Darin is on to something. The energy used to lift the boat could be put to better use propelling the boat, forward. But, the fact that Travis reports back nearly 70 mph with 0-3* of timing is very impressive. Something is going right there. I guess it's up to the user to decide if the extra speed, at the advantages of less timing, is worth any potential propulsion loss due to running so much negative angle.

[kfxguy]

I'm not convinced, after running the 2-Lap this weekend with Rafael, that the -17 rake props are the way to go. Have you tried the same pitch but with the -10 degree rake?

The reason I think this is that, with the -17 props, I had to run a LOT of strut angle downward in order to keep the nose down under the additional speeds. The lack of lift settled the transom more than with the stock prop, which, combined with the extra speed, resulted in some pretty spectacular wheelies down the straights.

I didn't have a pair of -10 props to try, but I suspect that the additional lift of these props would have allowed me to run less strut angle, and would have put more more of that thrust into pushing the boat forward, as opposed to hold the tail of the boat up.

Something to consider trying. I know that Rafael wasn't having to run as much strut angle as I did, and he was using the stock, X442 based props.

I know the negative goes against traditional thinking but the negative is what these props like. I usually counteract that by having the nose a little heavier in the front of the boat by using epoxy in the tips etc. I want to leave this boat as stock as possible so I haven't done that yet. I have some negative in my even faster boats struts also. The only boat that doesn't require negative usually is a cheetah single. I've tried the 10 degree 1916 vs the 17 degree 1915 back to back and the 10 degree was about 10mph slower even with more pitch. I'm sold on the 17 degree props and my prop box shows it. I'm constantly replacing my octuras and 10 degree abcs with the 17's. To make them work you just have to put in a little work in tuning it. The octuras don't require as much tuning but if you want the edge and a little more speed, you'll put in the extra time in messing with the 17's. You can't argue the speed and how stable it was in the video. Stock boat. Stock motors. Just props, almost 75mph in 30+mph winds. The water may not look that rough in the video but trust me it wasn't ideal for going these speeds. If I wasn't leaving for Minnesota tomorrow, I'd be at the lake proving this boat will go 80 with these props. Don't be scared of the negative.....it's not hurting your propulsion.....


One thing I'd like to add. I've gone 70 and some change a few times in good conditions. With what I've been dealing with lately I'm only getting 64-65 and then the boat flips....with stock props and the struts level. So I swap the props, lower the angle to keep it on the water and its WAAAAY more stable so I can actually run it now.....and its 4mph faster than my best....and I did it in worse conditions. I see it as a 10mph gain because the boat is not running near as loose as it was to do 70. So I loosen it and it's going 80. No doubt in my mind. Darin if you were using the 1815's, they have more pitch....in my testing with these props, more pitch brought on more bow lift and more flipping. if it's easier than watching the video....

[Darin Jordan]

OK... I'll just leave this to you. You clearly didn't read what I was saying, and hey, what do I know anyhow. It's not like I have anything that actually goes fast...

[kfxguy]

I edited my post. I misunderstood (or didn't pay attention well enough lol) something you said, apologies. That's what I get when I'm trying to do two things at once lol. But I will admit that I automatically take defense to most of what your write because to me it seems to me like like to disagree with me a lot. So my fault for thinking that way. I'll try to read your posts in a more positive manner for now on. When you started of by saying you aren't convinced on the 17 degree props, I already had it in my mind you were disagreeing just to disagree.

[Darin Jordan]

I edited my post. I misunderstood (or didn't pay attention well enough lol) something you said, apologies. That's what I get when I'm trying to do two things at once lol. But I will admit that I automatically take defense to most of what your write because to me it seems to me like like to disagree with me a lot. So my fault for thinking that way. I'll try to read your posts in a more positive manner for now on. When you started of by saying you aren't convinced on the 17 degree props, I already had it in my mind you were disagreeing just to disagree.

Thanks, Travis. I wasn't disagreeing at all. Just trying to pass on some thoughts based on the experience that Rafael and I had this past weekend.

[kfxguy]

Thanks, Travis. I wasn't disagreeing at all. Just trying to pass on some thoughts based on the experience that Rafael and I had this past weekend.

Gotcha. I know these props can be a handful. I lost a very nice build to the depths of my lake because of an 1815-17 prop. I was too dang set on not wanting to give negative. Just seemed counter productive to me. But that's what they like. Still hard to get used to it.


Here's how yesterday went before the videos. At home on my setup board, I put the boat flat on it. Then lowered the strut angle to where the end of the struts were .020 from hitting the surface using a feeler gauge. That's a good bit of negative. Get to the lake and I'm popping wheelies as I'm getting into it. Not what I want especially since it's windy. I'm running out of time (wife texting me to come home) so I just put them full negative to see what happens. This time I was able to make nice full throttle passes. Maybe this will be my new method for now on. Major negative at first then loosen it up.

[Brushless55]

Let me lay this out for you guys. These props do not seem very aggressive but the do drive better and feel/sound smoother. The temps in the esc were non existent. Ambient temp. The highest I recorded was 98f on the motors immediately after pulling the hatch. I was only doing speed runs BUT as you can see the boat was running wet and was very stable. I could raise the strut some and pick up a few more mph easily but in these conditions I didn't want to chance it so I put the struts as negative as they would go as a starting point. It just so happens it made a few nice clean passes in the high winds that I didn't want to press my luck so I packed up with a smile on my face.....knowing it's got 80 in it no problem. That's pretty damn impressive out of a rtr boat with a prop swap. Raphael just told me the temps on the motors would likely be higher with the low timing I had because they like some timing because of the 6 poles, so next time I'll be trying higher timing. I may even try the 1815's I have.

That sounds totally fair Travis
give it a go man !

[zooma]

If the motors are truly a "D" wind, I would expect them to run hotter with more timing advance, regardless of the number of poles.

[zooma]

Hey, Travis, what else would you do to the 17 rake props beside S & B? Do you cup them? I do like them for monos.

[kfxguy]

Hey, Travis, what else would you do to the 17 rake props beside S & B? Do you cup them? I do like them for monos.

Honestly these props are so good, I'm afraid to cup them and mess them up. They offer these in pitches up to 1.9 so there's really no need to do that. 1.4 like I'm using is pretty friendly to the electronics from what I can tell so far.

[kfxguy]

If the motors are truly a "D" wind, I would expect them to run hotter with more timing advance, regardless of the number of poles.

That's what I thought, but Raphael says otherwise and he's got a lot more time under his belt with these motors than me for sure so I trust what he says.

[Rafael_Lopez]

I'm confirming the timing with both the ESC and motor vendor tonight. I'll have a better answer for you guys soon.

Motor temps seem to be around the same regardless of timing. What gets hotter as timing goes up is the wires and connectors being that the ESC is dumping power in to the motors at a tighter distance with higher timing.

Typically Delta wound motors do require less timing, but ESC programming also comes in to play. Since these are a combo and the timing was set rather high from the factory, 15*, I specified a lower timing on the ESC to be set at 7*.

I'll have confirmation from the vendors soon.