BBY Micro Scat Cat SAWS record holder

[BILL OXIDEAN]

If we want to increase participation, then the real solution is to SIMPLIFY the classing structure by offering FEWER power choices, and getting more people into fewer classes. At least that's my humble opinion, from someone who has been there with the N1 stuff... And still have it on the shelf waiting for the next opportunity! [/QUOTE]


M-2 should go, but N-1 should be revised.
As has been done in the past we need a spec class that has rules that fall under Roar perameters

13.5 and 10.5 motors are spec'ed and will run well in boats
SV and LSO are way cool, but a couple of classes that constitute equipment that can readily be bought at your local hobby shop are always good

Many boaters come from a car background, and boats are now advertised in car mags.. Th ecompany who makes/advertises a boat that readily accepts this equipment will clean up..

Consolidating the smaller stuff into 2 main power classes would be great..
a 10.5 spec class and modified class where guys can run any roar legal BL motor all the way down to 2.5 turn

This way many great hulls can be raced and our race program will be well rounded.

At SAWS events in the recent years though attendance low, smaller boats and classes make up about 20-25pct of the records set and shot after and not just by me LoL.. In my eyes that's substantial and the scene really can't afford to banish it

[sjslhill]

Trent was a great guy and I hope to see him again in the afterlife if I make it to the right place, I know he's there.....I got to meet Trent and Dan with Jeff V. at BattleBots 5.0. Trent and I talked on several ocasions on the phone. Trent was one of Ed's favorites as well.

I still have some of Ed's boxes and want to try some of the newer Brushed Motors as well.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Legends

Trent was a great guy and I hope to see him again in the afterlife if I make it to the right place, I know he's there.....I got to meet Trent and Dan with Jeff V. at BattleBots 5.0. Trent and I talked on several ocasions on the phone. Trent was one of Ed's favorites as well.

I still have some of Ed's boxes and want to try some of the newer Brushed Motors as well.

Yep, you're talking about some serious legends.. Ed is the man when it comes to 05 motors, and breaking over 10 SAWS records in a weekend..

I feel extremely lucky to have known Trent.. He liked me and my projects. I copied him as much as I could afford to,and listened to his input.

Trent had a little cat simillar to mine and would be flabbergasted to see my little tunnel go like that.

[sjslhill]

IMPBA L class
L 1.05 Any bearing Any magnets 4
NAMBA M Class
M-2 A single .05 motor with brushes, any endbell, ferrite magnets.
Power Limits: 1-4 Ni-chemistry cells are permitted.

Seems to be a class that has the same rules in both groups. Since it's 05's and not LiPoly, people want to kill it. In fact, many on these forums want BL and LiPoy and nothing else.

NAMBA M2 Hydro M-2 Hydro
Pat McDonald
11-04
53.93
IMPBA L Hydro
Chris Harris
51+ IMPBA

Interesting class that you want to kill, comments? Very fast, low cost.

Maybe the IMPBA and NAMBA will kill them both and I'll start a 4 cell or 1S2P group.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

IMPBA L class
L 1.05 Any bearing Any magnets 4
NAMBA M Class
M-2 A single .05 motor with brushes, any endbell, ferrite magnets.
Power Limits: 1-4 Ni-chemistry cells are permitted.

Seems to be a class that has the same rules in both groups. Since it's 05's and not LiPoly, people want to kill it. In fact, many on these forums want BL and LiPoy and nothing else.

NAMBA M2 Hydro M-2 Hydro
Pat McDonald
11-04
53.93
IMPBA L Hydro
Chris Harris
51+ IMPBA

Interesting class that you want to kill, comments? Very fast, low cost.

Maybe the IMPBA and NAMBA will kill them both and I'll start a 4 cell or 1S2P group.

Steve, I don't really want to kill it, I just saw it as the sacraficial lamb to keeping other low cell count classes..
I want to keep 4-cell

I think it should allow 1s2p packs Novak has made a very interesting product:

http://www.teamnovak.com/products/smart_boost/index.html

Another thing that would benefit us as boaters but since its me showing it it'll be overlooked or blown off..

I tried telling people ETTI was great over a year ago but not until someone else vouched, did they get notoriety

[Darin Jordan]

Since it's 05's and not LiPoly, people want to kill it. In fact, many on these forums want BL and LiPoy and nothing else.

Steve,

You need to get your facts straight... The fact is that NO ONE is trying to "Kill" anything... These classes haven't been addressed AT ALL, with the exception of allowing Lipos in N1... they are there if people want to run them. Have at it... Bring on all those 4-cell car guys... the rules are in place for them to go to town, and have been for many, many, many years... Nobody, and neither organization, is stopping them from overwhelming us with the sheer numbers that are going to come over to the boating world...

...

...

...

...

... Are they here yet??


Here are some facts for you guys to consider:


1) Running small, underpowered brushed boats takes a lot of maintenance and equipment to keep working.

2) Running small, underpowered brushed boats take a lot of knowledge and tinkering to make run properly.

3) Small boats don't race well in rough water conditions or wind.

4) NiMH cells are finicky, high-maintenance, and heavy... the latter of which isn't good for small, underpowered boats.

5) There are very few water-worthy 4-cell ESCs that will hold up under 4-cell, M2 style boating conditions... The really good ones are now very rare (I happen to know... I still own 3 or 4 of them )

6) Small, underpowered boats have to be tuned JUST right to run effectively without burning stuff up... there is little room for error, and you have to run them RIGHT at the edge all the time.

7) N1 AND M2 boats are NOT inexpensive to run, regardless of what people will tell you, due to several of 1 thru 6 above...

8) Regardless of what 1 or 2 racers have been able to accomplish with M2 power... the average or even really good M2 powered Hydros are never going to see the top side of 40, and monos will be lucky to break into the high-30s...

9) All of the above can frustrate the daylights out of even the most seasoned racer, who will spend $$$, time, and effort to go ALMOST as fast as a RTR SV27...

[Darin Jordan]

I think it should allow 1s2p packs Novak has made a very interesting product:

http://www.teamnovak.com/products/smart_boost/index.html

Hmmmm... that's really cool... I was wondering when someone would come up with something like that... Would be really interesting if M2 allowed BL motors...

Don't see why you'd advocate 2P though... that's still 2-cells you have to buy... If you want to push the "cheaper" thing... then just make is 1S1P... That'd make for a LIGHT rigger!

[sjslhill]

Cool Bill, I like the Novak idea!

Darin, it would be a waste of my time to talk about your list of which most is incorrect in my opinion. You never even posted here until I did.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Impba

IMPBA has now abollished 4-cell L-class as well as o-the 8-cell class..
Just as N-1 allowed lipo, maybe 4-cell should include 1s as well as 3s for "o"
In NAMBA since theyre the only ones who still have it..

IMPBA allowed BL in 4-cell which was fun..
I'll never agree with getting rid of the smaller boats, I truly can't see a 10-year old kid starting out with a 50mph ss hydro

Europe is doing great with boats 25 inches and smaller. The attendance and number of FE races held there more than quadruples ours.
I've got 24 inch hulls that run fantastic choppy or not..

I admit this is a mellow speed, but nontheless fun and raceworthy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4hyEqNNpHw

I'm with Steve on starting another sanction, this is kind of insane.
Cars embrace every form of racing from micros to 1/5th scale, but we've gotta' be power hungry..

I think monster power is for those who can't get enough out of moderate power.
My opinion is "why run a big 'ol 33 inch P-mono at 65 when you can make a 13 inch hydro do it for less money and support equipment?

Mike Martin hit 78 with a 25inch hull which was an amazing feat in my eyes. It completely discredited the whole "length Limits" deal and the theory that you MUST use a bigger hull to go faster.

[Darin Jordan]

... most is incorrect in my opinion.

Until you've tried it in competition... I'm comfortable agreeing to disagree about your opinion on this matter...

I have... and I have the finishes and the records to prove it... as does Bill...

And nothing changes the fact that the rules are, and have been, in place, and yet, no one runs these classes... It's a "free market"... the opportunities are there... and people have made their choices.

If you guys can fill the seats in the other classes, and the demand is there, I don't know of any clubs that wouldn't make room for these people.

Go for it and let the people prove your point.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Hmmmm... that's really cool... I was wondering when someone would come up with something like that... Would be really interesting if M2 allowed BL motors...

Don't see why you'd advocate 2P though... that's still 2-cells you have to buy... If you want to push the "cheaper" thing... then just make is 1S1P... That'd make for a LIGHT rigger!

You're the master rule proposer, you got us lipo in N-1
write us up for bl 4-cell..

And you're righht 2p would be defeating the purpose if 1s

[Darin Jordan]

I'll never agree with getting rid of the smaller boats, I truly can't see a 10-year old kid starting out with a 50mph ss hydro

OK... but I HAVE a 10-year old son... who has been RC boat racing since he was 7... He started out with an N1 Mono for a season... which was fine, but he couldn't drive it on his own... they are too small and touchy and not very forgiving...

Got him an SV27... he can drive it for 10-laps on his own... it doesn't flip everytime he overcorrects... it's more exciting for him. AND, Dad doesn't have to pull the motor after each weekend to turn comms or replace brushes, etc...

No one said anything about going 50mph...

Mike Martin hit 78 with a 25inch hull which was an amazing feat in my eyes. It completely discredited the whole "length Limits" deal and the theory that you MUST use a bigger hull to go faster.

You guys need to get a grip on what you are talking about .... are we worried about SAWS or Oval racing??? The length limits are in place mostly for oval racing... If that 25" hull is going to survive against an real P-Mono on a 1/6th oval... it better get out front fast and stay there... and hope the race only lasts for 2 or 3 laps...

You can't keep quoting SAW records and then apply the logic to Oval racing... it just doesn't translate...

[sjslhill]

Darin,

I ran 4 cell 10 years ago and never worked on any coms. Doing maintance on 4 NIMH cells is work? Oh my!
Just buy a UL-1 or SV 27 and drop it in the water and oh my. Jeez, you are funny Darin. I read the forums, these boats need all kinds of work, they leak, motors burn up, turn fins break off, the hulls are brittle, they need upgrades.

Just go away from this thread....ego head.

Go look at the NAMBA rules, you need a lawyer to understand them.

As for your records....who have you raced against? 20 people? Talk about EGO, geewizz. I hung out with Ed Hughey for 15 years and the man is humble, people like you have a big ole fat head.

[Darin Jordan]

You're the master rule proposer, you got us lipo in N-1
write us up for bl 4-cell..

NO WAY Man!! After the abuse I've already taken helping with rules!

I'll let some new blood get involved!! Have at it guys... I'll watch...

[sjslhill]

Sorry Bill, another thread ruined by some NAMBA fat head that wants to control the entire planet. Keep up the good work!