Why is it that car brushless esc's can run at

[rockwerks]

part throttle all day long but plane and boat esc's are nothing more than elaborate on off switches? CC's programing on the mamba max is totally smooth on all speeds and does not build any temp problems but their boat esc's suck for programming.

Is that because the boat community is not demanding more from these companies?

[Rex R]

well, when last I heard. the car/truck folks were not demanding 120amp + current draw for 5 minute duration(yet), and to judge from the reaction I get when they see my boat's power setup...they wont for a while .

[rockwerks]

well, when last I heard. the car/truck folks were not demanding 120amp + current draw for 5 minute duration(yet), and to judge from the reaction I get when they see my boat's power setup...they wont for a while .

Well if the circuitry is there that can handle the amps then the issue is not in the hardware but in the software.

Then what is the issue with the 30 amp and 40amp and 70 amp units? They are no better

[rockwerks]

castles new monster max for 1/8 scale trucks

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/mamba_monster.html

[AntronX]

part throttle all day long but plane and boat esc's are nothing more than elaborate on off switches? CC's programing on the mamba max is totally smooth on all speeds and does not build any temp problems but their boat esc's suck for programming.

I run my boat part throttle, sometimes for few minutes continuously. What do you mean by saying "elaborate on off switches"?

[rockwerks]

I run my boat part throttle, sometimes for few minutes continuously. What do you mean by saying "elaborate on off switches"?

basically99% of boat and airplane esc's are off and step several speeds, not proportional and they tend to build up tons of heat when not on either off or full speed.

[deestingray]

A large reason that they are building up so much heat at part throttle especially in a boat is due to the amount of amperage that they draw coupled with the amount of power that they have going into them. Say you are running 4S and running half throttle, you still have 14.8 volts going into your esc and the output is probably half that to the motor. The energy needs somewhere to go and is transformed into heat. I read somewhere the other day on another forum with a good analogy of the setups we use. They are basically expensive soldering irons. Our motors put out far more wattage than the soldering irons that help put them together.

An esc isn't as much an on/off switch as a proportional resistor, if you put it into lamans, have a look at the blower fan resistor on an older car where you have about 3 coils of wire at differing thicknesses, the smaller coils providing the slower fan speeds. It is in the airflow where it can be kept cool so as not to blow the coils. That is at reasonably low current and they still do get quite hot.
So then you multiply the amount of current that most FE setups run which equates to a lot more heat, cooling in a boat is a lot harder to do because you cannot run a huge heatsink in nice airflow like you can with a car. Yes we can run water cooling, but it is usually not enough to take care of the heat buildup from running at slower speeds.
I guess at a glance, fully smooth proportional esc's aren't as critical in a surface drive FE setup, once you are on the plane and racing, it is flat out and then slower for the corners. Getting the drive back to the water is probably more critical. To have a company develop a nice smooth curve for FE would most probably drive the cost of the esc's up even further.

[rockwerks]

A large reason that they are building up so much heat at part throttle especially in a boat is due to the amount of amperage that they draw coupled with the amount of power that they have going into them. Say you are running 4S and running half throttle, you still have 14.8 volts going into your esc and the output is probably half that to the motor. The energy needs somewhere to go and is transformed into heat. I read somewhere the other day on another forum with a good analogy of the setups we use. They are basically expensive soldering irons. Our motors put out far more wattage than the soldering irons that help put them together.



An esc isn't as much an on/off switch as a proportional resistor, if you put it into lamans, have a look at the blower fan resistor on an older car where you have about 3 coils of wire at differing thicknesses, the smaller coils providing the slower fan speeds. It is in the airflow where it can be kept cool so as not to blow the coils. That is at reasonably low current and they still do get quite hot.
So then you multiply the amount of current that most FE setups run which equates to a lot more heat, cooling in a boat is a lot harder to do because you cannot run a huge heatsink in nice airflow like you can with a car. Yes we can run water cooling, but it is usually not enough to take care of the heat buildup from running at slower speeds.
I guess at a glance, fully smooth proportional esc's aren't as critical in a surface drive FE setup, once you are on the plane and racing, it is flat out and then slower for the corners. Getting the drive back to the water is probably more critical. To have a company develop a nice smooth curve for FE would most probably drive the cost of the esc's up even further.

first off most car esc's never see any direct cooling air and those that are used for speed ;runs see none, they run totally enclosed bodies. Your whole argument is a mute point . some car esc's are designed for up to 6s. The fact is we allow them to give us shoddy merchandise and accept it.

I would be that if no one bought a new CC 240 for 6 months because we where not satisfied with the performance it would change and the price would not.

but as it stands the 240 now if lucky will stand up to 140 amps and has no protection for cross wiring or real overheat protection as ALL car esc's do, frankly as it stands we are paying top dollar for cheap merchandise

[Fluid]

Let's see, you ask a question, dis' those who bothered to answer you, then ignore their accurate comments all while using poor spelling and grammer. My suggestion to you - sell that Castle junk and get you a REAL controller from Novak. No worries then son, complete customer satisfaction.



.

[Eyekandyboats]

who drives there boat slow anyway.
its all or nothing until you hit a corner or a large ammount of race water chop

[Mich. Maniac]

who drives there boat slow anyway.
its all or nothing until you hit a corner or a large ammount of race water chop

Well put Sir!

I kinda see the Rocks point... I think. I used to fly heli's of course most motors were outrunners but full throttle was not needed. There again you had blade wash going over to cool the motor. I used all Align electrics and they at least seemed to hold up perfect to what they were rated and you didnt hear much of esc/motor failure. But Rock you are talking about 2 COMPLETELY different beasts. If you are pulling 120A on a geared tranny car then jeez lookout cause its prolly doin about 120mph! If you go back to brushed esc/motor combo's they could pretty much put any number they wanted for amp rating cause simply you couldnt put more than 8-9 Volts to them and if you did they then would melt or fail. So a brushed car esc could have a rating of 500A and no one would doubt it cause it REALLY only had 30A capability but with a trans there werent even gears made to push those numbers. Its a complicated electronic universe out there and I know I am still in it, every time I think I have it figured out (BAM) there goes more money!

Sorry for rambling with un-technical info also.

[rockwerks]

Let's see, you ask a question, dis' those who bothered to answer you, then ignore their accurate comments all while using poor spelling and grammer. My suggestion to you - sell that Castle junk and get you a REAL controller from Novak. No worries then son, complete customer satisfaction.



.

No dissin here just no facts have been given, I use mamba maxes in most of my rc rigs and have never had any issues, my thought was why cant they give us the same kind of quality in thier water esc's? The reason is because we dont demand it

[AntronX]

Dude, put that MambaMax in your boat and see what happens.

[SweetAccord]

The Mamba Max is sweet though-have one myself.

I almost think the Mamba Max is close to the Hydra minus the water cooling and other programming options for car applications that you would never want to use on a boat.

Yeah the Mamba Max would not survive in a boat setup, yeah it can hold up to 100 amps per spec., but with no cooling would not think it would last long, (maybe a small boat setup) eventually end up watching it will heat up and pop. Call Castle and ask them see what they say or think about your inquiry.

Maybe it can, but hard to believe they would make the Hydra line if the Mamba's can fulfill the same application as it would cost more money for them to produce and support and write up software for two different products that can do the same thing.

Peace~

[RMZDADDY]

I've run 70 and 77 amp hacker navy controllers for 3 years and never smoked one.
This spring I purchased a hydra 240 for my 4s 8xl sport 21 hydro. It has performed flawlessly so far, no problems at all.
I know others have had issues with these, but to assume castle is intentionally providing us with an inferior product is wrong.
I also believe that drawing direct comparison between car/truck controllers and marine controllers suggests a lack of experience running brushless FE boats.
Just my 2 cents though