TFL Pursuit II

[TheShaughnessy]

dont want to turn this into a "racing" thread but If there isn't a rule yet I would vote on one, and expedite the process if possible (there is a rule where If a boat doesn't move for 5 seconds it is considered a "dead boat. Not sure how long the new pursuit would take to self right). My first season of racing I was lucky to finish the heat. My last race, 3 years after I started was the first time I finished all 4 heats.

This isn't short course truck racing, we race rc boats, and one of the goals is to achieve a scale representation of a full size boat race. I have never seen a 1:1 scale boat self right so I don't think the race boats should.

I'm not scared someone with a self righting hull would beat me, they almost certainly would, finish all 4 heats and that's half the battle. But if you ask me, that sounds like cheating.

I also agree with what has been said. 5th place flips.... 1st place is getting ready to lap him but his boat self rights, he thinks he's gonna get out of the way but drives right in front of him allowing 2nd place by to take the lead. Or a similar situation is the reason self righting boats don't belong on the race course.

That being said I've messed with a self-righting hull and for sport running they are awesome.

[NativePaul]

Where I am all Monos self right, those that don't start off self-righting all get modded for it before their second season, most of the cats in our club Cat2 class self-righted too.

Personally I am not a big mono fan only having one Mono1 race boat but I would never run a mono that didn't self-right, its all they have going for them IMO, cats are faster and turn better in the calm and riggers are faster and turn better in any conditions, Ecos are damn near as fast and turn like UFOs.

I imagine self-righting would be pretty pointless for 6 lap sprint racing as you lose around 5-6 seconds or half a lap turning back over and getting up to speed again (I guess you are all within half a lap over 6, so it would still put you in last place same as if you had not of righted), I don't expect that airing out a little would net you 1/12th average speed advantage so you would be better off saving the weight and carrying on as is, for offshore racing I think it would be a different story, as you would have a lot more time to pull your position back should you flip, we race monos for 6 minutes and while it can often mean losing a place or two, it would be unusual to go from first to last and stay there because of a single flip, our longer races mean that we only need 1/60th average speed advantage (less than 1mph)to make up for a flip which can easily be done by airing out a little more than you would want to with a non self-righting boat, I imagine that the 1/40th average speed advantage you guys would need for offshore racing would be pretty easy too.

As for dead boats moving I can see Terry's point for sprint racing as going wide on 1 corner could cost you a place or two, but for longer races dead boats don't stay put anyway, I have seen dead boats drifting in and out of the racing line several times during a 5 minute Hydro race, and even right down the straight and back again. I believe there is far more to be lost to someone who is prepared to narrowly miss a dead boat every lap rather than give it a respectable distance during an endurance race than there is to be lost going wide for a dead boat that disappears. Personally I much prefer racing alongside self righting boats, even though my cat was one of the few in the club that didn't, it was nice to have high likelihood of a clear course to run on. In the Hydro classes where the vast majority of boats can't self-right I always appreciate it if they can make it off the racing line to the interior of the course.

[TheShaughnessy]

Here's a plan. When we see the full scale Miss Geico and Motley blow off the water and then flip over to finish a race I'll start doing it too.

Traditional flex cable. Yes please. The square drive works but is a pain to maintain. Especially between heats at a race.

you beat me to it. I agree 100% When full size had turn marshals I think we could get some.

[Luck as a Constant]

you guys are comparing full scale to rc boats?

in rc car or truck racing when you flip off course or crash, someone flips you back over and you're allowed to continue. How does that compare to full scale car or truck racing? i don't see nascars flipping over 10 times then continue racing....

[Doby]

So, I think everyone pretty much agrees that its great for sport running but not so much for racing.

Terry, I know who you are talking about with his self righting hulls (no flood chambers but cool engineering done with hatch shapes and weight placement)...and agree, he is mindful of the other racers. Sometimes he gets called "dead" when he flips and doesn't right itself immediately...he respects the CD's calls when made so its never really been an issue.

I think we have all beat and been beaten by his self righting hulls over the years :)

Luck, if you ever come to a race and want to volunteer to flip over boats that are upside down during a race, you are welcome to do so! As you may have gathered, boat races and car races have "slightly" different rules.

Perhaps the car /truck racers have been doing it wrong all these years and need to learn the correct way from the boaters.

[iop65]

in the end it's all about how many boats they want to sell i guess:

pursuit II with no flood chamber to most American racers
or pursuit II with flood chamber to some european racers plus about every sport-boat fan around the world that likes the comfort of not goinig to get the retrievel boat out everytime the boat flips

a pretty easy choise for any ceo i think

[Doby]

You could always just tape up the flood chamber for a race and have no issues at all.

When not racing, take off the tape.

[iop65]

a suggestion :don't use wood to reinforce the transom anymore , use some 3mm epoxyplate for pursuit II please

[T.S.Davis]

he is mindful of the other racers. Sometimes he gets called "dead" when he flips and doesn't right itself immediately...he respects the CD's calls when made so its never really been an issue.

Yes he is. Very much so. It's never been an issue on the course because he is respectful. I have to remember to thank him for that.

Another problem with a self righter in a sea of non self righters is that it continues to garner points where as a non self righter is simply a DNF. I suppose either require them all to have it or prohibit it. You can't have them both together IMO. The Euro boats have no choice now. That cat has left the bag.

What if the self righters were built so that you had a simple plug you could put in if you wanted to race? It would be super convenient when your just out screwing around or practicing.

[NativePaul]

You could always just tape up the flood chamber for a race and have no issues at all. When not racing, take off the tape.

Or if they were to rule it out you could always self-right and not continue, sitting there drifting with the wind the right way up instead of upside down, and driving in at the end of the heat to save rescue a job.

pursuit II with no flood chamber to most American racers
or pursuit II with flood chamber to some european racers plus about every sport-boat fan around the world that likes the comfort of not goinig to get the retrievel boat out everytime the boat flips

Unless they add a step or two they wont sell any to Naviga racers in Europe or Asia, and adding the steps would stop them selling these to those American racers that want to race Mono classes not Offshore.

[Doby]

Or if they were to rule it out you could always self-right and not continue, sitting there drifting with the wind the right way up instead of upside down, and driving in at the end of the heat to save rescue a job.

U

Good point.

[Monica Smith]

Thanks for all who involved in this topic.
Sorry for can't answer every questions, but I will try to mark down all of comments for the owner!

[electric]

Let me add one more, a standard 3/16" single shaft rather than a two piece square drive in the RTR.

[785boats]

Paul.

Or if they were to rule it out you could always self-right and not continue, sitting there drifting with the wind the right way up instead of upside down, and driving in at the end of the heat to save rescue a job.

That's what the rule is at our club if anyone wants to run a boat with a flood chamber and it's called dead after a flip.

[ray schrauwen]

I know there are enough classes already but a class like this would be nice. Its just fun to keep going for laps in a timed race. Add one class like this and possibly get European attendance at a Nats race.? It wouldn't hurt replacing one offshore course.