CF Cloth?

[Wetter]

i and others really appreciate your time and all i can say is thank you.
Great rewards come to those that help others. be on your site later on.
this is going to be fun

[Mgivens]

Hey wetter,

Maybe someone else can chime in..., but I don't think doing a layup with g flex is ideal...I think it's more of very viscous thick type glue/ bond things together epoxy, whereas 105 is specifically made for the wetting out all types of cloth...I have both.

[BILL OXIDEAN]

It's not "stale". Relative to any other Pro-Set product from that line, it's about as fresh as you will find...it was from some of the last gallons produced. I feel like you took offense to my offering for some reason. You said you liked Pro-set and I have some I'm not using, so I thought perhaps I would be doing you a favor...I definitely meant no ill will...

With all due respect, your recommendations were in regards to what products you purchase. If you really think that purchasing any one of the three products mentioned (west, pro-set, ez-lam) is what sets one person's work apart from another's, you aren't paying attention. I'm sorry Bill, I don't really know you and have absolutely nothing against you, but the notion that someone will produce quality work because they buy what you tell them to is ludicrous.

Your end product will be much more dependent on YOUR execution than brand loyalty.

I appreciate your eliquense, no offense taken. I simply shared some high quality products. Never insinuated that if one uses these products they will end up with a miracle without proper training and experience, but believing one will get top notch results with less than top notch materials is actually ludicrus.

Have any one of you ever seen the electric cloth cutters in action? there's a reason they cost 100+ bucks lol!
That tool is amazing! I guess that's what I get for sharing my experiences in a high tech composites lab

BTW, no one has answered my question about sizing and its relevance to which resin system you choose for your lamination schedule (without looking it up)..

Not saying none of the top SAW contenders know this, but I see none of them discrediting my info : )

West systems is amazing stuff, but there IS better out there. No, I'm not sponsored by a composites lab, no reason to fluff though I don't anyway..

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Hey wetter,

Maybe someone else can chime in..., but I don't think doing a layup with g flex is ideal...I think it's more of very viscous thick type glue/ bond things together epoxy, whereas 105 is specifically made for the wetting out all types of cloth...I have both.

I actually know how to properly manipulate viscosity numerous ways without sacraficing molecular bond, or strength..

[Wetter]

Hey wetter,

Maybe someone else can chime in..., but I don't think doing a layup with g flex is ideal...I think it's more of very viscous thick type glue/ bond things together epoxy, whereas 105 is specifically made for the wetting out all types of cloth...I have both.

so you are saying that 105 is thinner(wetter)? so it would penetrate easier?
ok i will have to look at the marine shop i got the Flex from.
chime in anytime, i can't learn if i don't ask, heck someday i will get brave like Bigbore and do Pre-preg and purchase an
Autoclave and have my Auto Cad friends help me design many different things, i like to dream but i cannot know everything.
ps i will now sit back and take all the info in, it is just like a good book or game can not wait to get to the next episode
and Bill i am glad you posted those shears, if there is not a tool i do not have and can purchase or rent to do my jobs better.
heck just one of my many collections(i have a lot of my grandfathers tools) some i use, some actually i display cause they just don't makem' like they use to. From jack hammers to eyeglass repair kits. if i don't have it the store does.

[T.S.Davis]

Keith, don't you hold both the S and T Cat SAW records at over 100 mph each?

You keep using whatever product you want from which ever shelf it's on. Much respect.

[keithbradley]

@Wetter:
I didn't notice the G-flex comment. As Mgivens said, that is pre-thickened and intended to be an adhesive, not laminating resin. 105 is much, much thinner and will net far better results. It would be difficult to do a nice job with G-flex.
If you use 207 hardener your work will look better in a year than it will with 206 or 205 and it gives you a little more pot life as well. 207 is more expensive, but mixes at a different ratio, so you will get more actual resin when using 207 than you will with the others (with the exception of their extra slow resin). If you do the math, the price isn't as bad as it looks. For people who do small projects, a small west systems kit will last a long time. You can optionally use the Z-poxy stuff too (the thinner version) if you want to keep it cheap. It works just fine, but will yellow a bit over time.

@Bill
She told me that sizing doesn't matter...I hope she wasn't lying to me...

@TS:
Thanks for the kind words. I think the T-cat average came out to 98 or 99 with a fast pass of 100.something. It could have easily been higher but I didn't want to push my luck. That hull was a new, untested design that I was the first to ever run, and it's first splash was at the event. It was really just an R and D project. The plan was to run/test it there, try to get the record by a fair margin, and then sell the boat afterward. In the spring, I won't be running any "for sale" projects, and I don't plan on leaving either of those records in tact.

@everyone:
In my opinion, there are a number of epoxy resins that can be used for CF laminations to produce good results. While people may prefer one type or another for varying reasons, product quality really comes down to execution. A lot of people don't realize that we are surrounded by boats made with vinyl/polyester resins, improper fabric to resin ratios, carbon fiber plates and panels made with layers on black fiberglass inside, etc. If you are using an epoxy resin and proper technique, you are doing nicer work than 99% of the stuff out there.

[Cooper]

Hey for what it's worth, I simply use sharp craft shears from some local craft store like fiskars or something like that. It really isn't about how sharp the cutters are but how they shear. I can take old loose shears and by simply keeping cutting surfaces tight on the downward cut obtain a good clean cut. And I can take the most expensive shears and do the opposite resulting in fray and stringy cut lines. It's not rock science (lol) just use some sharp clean edged shears proper and you will get clean even cuts in carbon and in Kevlar. As far as resins I've been using zpoxy finishing resin for ever and have kept several saw boats intact at airborne crashes above 100mph with no delaminating or structural compromises from failed epoxy bond. Again a lot of success is in proper prepping and application. I guess the elephant in the room is simply stating you can polish a tird but it's still just a tird. Keep it simple, especially if you are just learning.

[tlandauer]

Hey for what it's worth, I simply use sharp craft shears from some local craft store like fiskars or something like that. It really isn't about how sharp the cutters are but how they shear. I can take old loose shears and by simply keeping cutting surfaces tight on the downward cut obtain a good clean cut. And I can take the most expensive shears and do the opposite resulting in fray and stringy cut lines. It's not rock science (lol) just use some sharp clean edged shears proper and you will get clean even cuts in carbon and in Kevlar. As far as resins I've been using zpoxy finishing resin for ever and have kept several saw boats intact at airborne crashes above 100mph with no delaminating or structural compromises from failed epoxy bond. Again a lot of success is in proper prepping and application. I guess the elephant in the room is simply stating you can polish a tird but it's still just a tird. Keep it simple, especially if you are just learning.

100% !!!

[Wetter]

Anybody tell ya guys yous are the Best
Rodger that on 105/207, we have a clearance to mix and pour and spread and be careful and keep clean and darn it's still not dry yet

[T.S.Davis]

polish a tird but it's still just a tird.

That's funny right there.

All my boats are shiny turds. No need for any epoxy higher than the bottom shelf.

Simple is better unless you actually do work at a composite shop.

[iridebikes247]

to Bill

sizing? nope don't know. If you present yourself and information the way you did people won't listen to you even if you are right. trying to belittle a group of guys with toy boats seems kinda silly to me, when you too are holding one. granted one can't argue proper technique and the knowledge base required to create "the ultimate bond," still silly though.

[Wetter]

look i do not take some things lightly, on the side yard sits a beautiful replica of an amazing build my son and i have done.
she(BAD AGNESS) started to go inexpensively but as they say you just get bitTopic: HM# 1082.http://www.hurricane-motorsports.com/default.asp Owners Forum in "Build Pictures"

[Powerboat 5000]

That hatch is Boss!

[Wetter]

ok, before taxes.
Z-Poxy PT-40: 12oz. $13 @ $1.08 an oz.
West System G/Flex 650: 118ml ea. bottle @ 8oz. $22 @ $2.75 an oz.
" " 105 Resin 32oz. $42 / 207 Hardener 10.6oz.(is a 3:1 Ratio) $40 combined 40.6oz @$1.93 an oz.

now if i had to buy two PKG. of said products and knowing i am going to do more than specific project, well do the math.
Thanx again Kieth.
p.s. find somethn' cheaper it probably is.