Fed up with RTR boats...

**properchopper** · 08-28-2013, 12:26 PM

I couldn't agree with you more. As one who custom builds boats for a wide-based audience, I get frequent inquiries for a price quote on a well-built boat. Roughly 3/4 of these people back out when they find out the price. BUT every boat I build uses premium American-made hardware, the best possible internals, high grade epoxies and stainless nuts/bolts and EVERY step of the way precautions are taken to provide long-lasting durability and performance. It ain't cheap, but my boats will out-perform and outlast those made in some far-away factory by a 12-year old girl paid .35 cents an hour with no idea of what she's building.

[sorry for the rant] but I hear what you're saying.

**kwiktsi** · 08-28-2013, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by properchopper

I couldn't agree with you more. As one who custom builds boats for a wide-based audience, I get frequent inquiries for a price quote on a well-built boat. Roughly 3/4 of these people back out when they find out the price. BUT every boat I build uses premium American-made hardware, the best possible internals, high grade epoxies and stainless nuts/bolts and EVERY step of the way precautions are taken to provide long-lasting durability and performance. It ain't cheap, but my boats will out-perform and outlast those made in some far-away factory by a 12-year old girl paid .35 cents an hour with no idea of what she's building.

[sorry for the rant] but I hear what you're saying.

Oooo don't even get me going on the quality difference between American and Chinese hardware! Not just in our toys, in everything, it's absolute garbage compared to the American fasteners!

**properchopper** · 08-28-2013, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by Skullcracken

I can tolerate a descent fiberglass hull, pretty good hardware for the prices these RTR's grab. I haven't bought one in a while but have had a popular brand 31 inch mono for about a year. Here's an idea, if you make an RC WATERcraft, how about making all the hardware screws stainless! Is that just too out of the budget? Im so sick of rusty screws stripping out when you try to replace them. Maybe include a free drill with your RTR boats instead of stainless screws... Wish I had bought a deltaforce 33 instead of a RTR...

I started out running in salt water behind my liveaboard boat years ago. Talk about rusty screws !! I learned my lesson then, and now always use stainless regardless if I have to drive all over town to find exactly what I need. Also, I won't use "speed nut" thingies - Nuts and Bolts ONLY - once a bolt sticks in those speed nuts the whole enchilada starts to rotate and then, well, you're "screwed" just like what's happening in the boat

DSC04818.JPG

**Fluid** · 08-28-2013, 02:11 PM

.....how about making all the hardware screws stainless! Is that just too out of the budget...

Yes it is. RTR boats are built to a price point, and even the small cost difference of going to stainless fasteners (and the extra time required to use lock nuts versus speed nuts) will affect the final price (and profitability) of the boat. Those who have actual experience as a manufacturer in the retail market will understand...

As Tony stated, price the boat too high and you loose a lot of your customer base. To keep the consumer price at the known price point and to keep the manufacturer/distrubutor/retailer profitable, then some corners have to be cut. Yes it is annoying to those of us who know beter, but you have to accept the fact that the vast majority of RTR buyers know little about R/C boats, are happy with their purchase, and are unlikely to run the boat more than a dozen times anyway - if that much. These are the people targeted by the RTR makers, not "us". If you don't like RTRs, then don't buy them - but be prepared to spend a LOT more for quality.

.

**properchopper** · 08-28-2013, 02:27 PM

I find myself really drawn to this thread because, as I see it, it brings up lots more than what appears on the surface. Truthfully, most of the reasonably current crop of RtR boats are an excellent value (especially compared to what was available, say, ten years ago). But remember, to attract entry level hobbyists the price must be (at least somewhat) accessible. Companies like AQ, PB, and Trax likely start with a target market price, then go to the design and engineering departments and instruct them to create a marketable product based on the bean counter's build allowance. Component/part prices need to fit into a narrow affordability window to meet build price expectations and this dictates the quality of what the final unit ends up with. Sort of like : LOW RETAIL PRICE - HIGH QUALITY ; choose ONE.

IIRC I recently saw the introduction of a RtR KYOSHO catamaran which retails at somewhat around $900. Comments started rolling in about the high price BUT from what I've seen (and owned) of Kyosho, there's a very decent effort to maintain a high quality standard.

There seems to be here at OSE a natural progression from RtR boaters to modded RtR boaters, to the ZBS/WTS boaters
(ZoomBangSplash/WhatsThatSmell) boaters to those that ultimately progress to that tentative first step of scratch building a more premium setup and it's ALL GOOD

After All :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOMTnLHDWRA

**Flying Scotsman** · 08-28-2013, 02:48 PM

I could not agree more with what has been previously stated. I started with an RTR boat about 10 years ago and it was OK and met my expectations then, but it was obviously built to a price point. The kicker was that it got me hooked on FE boats and I have now built a lot of hulls and love building them. I would strongly suggest that if you buy an RTR do not spend a lot of cash in modifying it, instead buy a bare hull and the world is your oyster and there are lads on this forum who will help you with their knowledge and experience with a particular hull.

Douggie

**properchopper** · 08-28-2013, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by Flying Scotsman

I could not agree more with what has been previously stated. I started with an RTR boat about 10 years ago and it was OK and met my expectations then, but it was obviously built to a price point. The kicker was that it got me hooked on FE boats and I have now built a lot of hulls and love building them. I would strongly suggest that if you buy an RTR do not spend a lot of cash in modifying it, instead buy a bare hull and the world is your oyster and there are lads on this forum who will help you with their knowledge and experience with a particular hull.

Douggie

**Livewire121** · 08-28-2013, 05:12 PM

I absolutely agree! I've been into RC for close to 30 years. I had a kyosho boat about 20 years ago, but I only ran it a few times before I lost interest. Fast forward to last year when I got a trailer. The park wouldn't allow my nitro vehicles, so out of rc boredom I bought the mini mono. I was so impressed that I showed it to a few of the guys on the team I race for. Well that started the boat trend, next thing I know they're getting Spartans, Revolts, and Stilettos. So I got an EKOS, she couldn't keep pace with the Spartans or the Revolt.
That's when I started to educate myself using this form over the winter to gut the hull, lay carbon fiber, install bigger and better electronics, true the hull, and so on for this season. Now she runs great in the mid to high 70's and now they can't keep pace with me.

But you would think that would be enough, but a few months ago I purchased an HPR 115 and now the big leagues.

Richard

**Doby** · 08-28-2013, 06:35 PM

Beat up RTR's all you want...but without them...FE would probably be next no nowhere today.

**Skullcracken** · 08-28-2013, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by Doby

Beat up RTR's all you want...but without them...FE would probably be next no nowhere today.

Yah but that's not a big deal, just make all hardware stainless for something that's designed to live in the water... When your paying $350-400 for Pro-boat and Aquacraft, or $600 for Venom boats, why put something out on the market that ends up with rust all over? Have some pride in your product.

**iridebikes247** · 08-28-2013, 10:27 PM

I am in grad school for accounting. Sucks when the accountants have more say in the product than the engineer.

**Heaving Earth** · 08-28-2013, 10:32 PM

I just swap them out myself for stainless. Easy enough.

**Peter A** · 08-28-2013, 10:49 PM

The Pursuit I got a few months ago (From HK) came with s/s bolts and nyloc nuts, which is sweet as I haven't had to muck around changing them all. I agree though with previous comments, it is a shame that a good product isn't a great one for the sake of a few bucks. As consumer nations we can be a tad guilty of the 'cheapness'. At the end of the day you get what you pay for.
I have been scratch building model boats since I was about ten years old and still love doing so, it takes longer but I find it as much fun as running them.

**capnswanny** · 08-28-2013, 11:22 PM

Ya gotta start somewhere. If it wasn't for lower cost RTR, a lot of us wouldn't be here! Thanks for the playground Steve