powering large boats with electric

[KartRacer]

Maybe the best way is to say well a 10 lb boat going 100 mph will cost about $1500 and for every ? Number pounds add $500. :). Obviously I don't have a clue what the real numbers are but most people think this is easy and cheap because they see RTR boats like the traxxas at 70mph for $400 and Think, wow this stuff is cheap.
My little 35" Pirate will be about $1000 when done not counting radio and charger and going half the speed.
I know it's got to be frustrating as a vendor dealing with clueless people but thankfully you all give new hobbiest a short rope to teach and hope they don't hang themselves with stupidlty.

Retail is tough. Hang in there teach who you can and reap the rewards of new customers. If you can't teach them, move on to the next guy.

[drwayne]

Let's list comparison build info for expresscraft to learn from.

Ive a 18lb 54" cat
2 x Leo 5692/730kv
2 x Swordfish240HV with external capacitor banks ( most every esc uses this now days )
Octura X457 + X460
12S1P50/100C5800 SINGLE BATT set shared to both esc. ( though 12S2P would likely double runtime)
runtime ~4 minutes at 70mph

No over heats, no stressed equip, and the 'cheap' Leopard' motors are a great bang for buck alternative against the 3x priced Neu or 5x Lehners.

This build came in under $1650 USD, add batteries.

Ditto comments above.. market dominance is 33-45" catamarans... 50+ is an expensive leap sideways.

regs
Wayne

[T.S.Davis]

Wayne, those motors pull 35 amps each?

5800 x .80 is 4640 useable mah
4640 over 4 minutes is a touch over 69 amps for both motors

I must have missed something.

[MarkF]

I have built many big boats as well up to 92" cats and have several saw records to prove my experiance in making big boats go fast. I would go with the Castle 2028 motor or the leo 5692 730 kv, Castle 200 amp HV or the swordfish but I have not had good luck with those controllers. , octura X457 counter rotating props and 10s of my 6000 65c packs. This will give a respectable speed at a mild amp draw. If the guy wants to go faster later he can with bigger props. I can get you 10s sticks so you don't have to parrallel and series up two 5s packs. My packs have been tested by several boat racers including Joerg Mirkwitschka who just sent me his results and said they tested on par witht the Hyperians he's been running. I believe I have the best packs on the market at the best price. I give a 6 month warranty and if you have a problem I take care of it. Not Hobbyking in China. If you have any questions you can call me.
949-525-1644
Mark

[expresscraft]

You guys are on fire now,LOL. Thats what I needed, is parts that work together and how they are working. in gas boats a 54" hull is not that much different then a 60" hull.sure it's bigger, But the bigger boat also packs more air under it. so i would expect to give up a few mph but not much on the same set up. or i can use those numbers and up them just a little on motor size and batteries, Mark I have no reason not to support you, and I will.I see the value in your experience and I need it. So I will practice what I preach. I have relayed a lot of the info to my customer, and let him know the options you guys have giving me.I have recommended the castle products at this point.he still needs to pay pal some money to put this in gear,and that's where we are at.I would love to build some electric hulls, But I really have to get there first.still a lot of learning to do.thanks again for all the post. i hope you will keep them coming. i have not been able to find to much on big electric boats. so im sure this will help more then just me.

[drwayne]

Wayne, those motors pull 35 amps each?
5800 x .80 is 4640 useable mah
4640 over 4 minutes is a touch over 69 amps for both motors
I must have missed something.

LVC 3.1 returns ~5260 ~90% equates ~2K6W average per run
X457 + 460 returns well... X465+ brings heat
This is oval trim.. no saw contender !
Take it to pm

Note to Expresscraft.. High Lipo pack quality makes a bold difference to performance, runtime and survivability of any FE budget.

[expresscraft]

i know from years in the hobby shop, you really do get what you pay for in batteries.

[wade7575]

I would have to agree with that for the most part,I have been into all kind's of stuff RC and if it's one thing I've learned over the year's sometime's the cheaper stuff is just as good as the stuff that cost alot but not alway's.

I think the Turnigy NanoTech Battery's are going to turn out to be Decent Battery's but olny time will tell,I honestly think with ThunderPower they are a really good Battery but you are also paying alot for the name,although I have not tried the Dinogy Pack's from what I have heard from PMing a few guy's on the forum they sound like the best bang for your buck right now if you need a High Dicharge Lipo with a really good C rating.

I also know there alot of Battery's that were crap when I ran RC Car's a few year's back just look at the MaxAmp's NIMH Sub-C cell's they were beyond stupid over priced and almost every person that got them on the Traxxas forum said after 5 to 16 run's they would blow a cell out of there pack with a Brushed E-Maxx,they used the same cell's Durtrax did in there NIMH packs and they used to get so hot it was not even funny,a friend of mine got some and they were way hotter then my EP 4600 Cell's.

I don't what Max Amp's Lipo's are like now but back then it was the same deal they were charging a Top dollar for there Lipo's and they were not even close to what they rated them at,alot of guy's on the Traxxas forum tested them with an EagleTree against the TrueRC pack's back then and a 25C Max Amp's pack did not do as well as a 15C TrueRC Pack.

Don't get me wrong I agree with what your saying I just don't feel that just because you buy what cost's the most everytime will alway's get you the best product in the end.

i know from years in the hobby shop, you really do get what you pay for in batteries.

[expresscraft]

you are right. a lot changed with lipo packs,with ni-cads you had matched race packs that where expensive and not really worth the extra money for a guy that could not take advantage of the slight edge that was given for the money.However I raced on-road cars in the states series.Where you where trying to beat guys by a few car links to win.and every bit helped. with long drives to tracks,tires and hotel prices great batteries where just a small part of the racing cost.when lipo's came out and the internet was in top gear, everybody and there brother was making batteries, not just a few companies like sanyo and panasonic.So it was about labels, Horizon hobby's sell thundertiger batteries, and they are a trusted supplier.But they also charge to distribute product for the manufactures they distribute for.(part of the higher price) Then there are all the companies that make and sell direct.there prices are better but we are subject to what they put on there label. some are good,some not so much.in a lot of cases its the same battery with a different label and price.thats why I think brand name is a good way to go. but the brand has to be endorsed by guys using it and not selling it.and even that only goes so far.i had customers complaining about bad batteries from hobbyking and how they would not give any service.And im thinking for the price you paid. throw it away if it does not work. 80% of what they sold was fine, and at half what i was paying for a lipo as a dealer.You did not pay for service with that price.So years later.Some guys hate hobby king,and some guys love them.I do think you still get what you pay for in the end, whether its a great priced pack, or a great pack with service or that pack that just gives a slight edge.Brands do not get a great, or a bad name for no reason.I will support MarkF when the time comes and until there is a reason not to. he is a boater, he is on the form I posted.and he has come with some recommendations.I have been a great planes and horizon dealer for 22 years and have done 1/2 million dollar years in my shop. and to this day.neither company could care less about me out side of what Im buying.I dont know if Mark has the best price or not.But there is a great chance he has the best value.And I will support that.

[wade7575]

I know I asked Mark about getting 6 of his 14.8 Volt 6000Mah Packs with a 130C 65C Rating and he told me he would sell them to me for 110.00 Per-Pack instead of the 120.00 he normaly charge's,I know the Turnigy 5000Mah Pack's are a bit cheaper but the shipping for 6 is like a 110.00 because they come out of the China WareHouse,I think now know about Mark's Pack's I would still rather get his as the Turnigy's are hit and miss and in the end if one pack went bad then it would not be cheaper to buy from HobbyKing in the end and not olny that I'm not getting my extra 1000Mah and better Performance.

Here is a Thread I seen before and I wanted to send it to you before but I could not find it and now have,here is what one guy said about the Performance of the Pack's and it's Post 25 (I can attest to the fact that they are better than the Hyperion's I have ben running. I have a 6s 2p set that I run in my Q hydro on the 10th cycle i am getting .8 mohm resistance. My Hyperion's (45C) are 1.36 on 6s 2p. All at the same temperature 80 F.)Look at the Internal Resistance I think speak's for the pack's pretty well as that means they are going to run cooler and make them less prone to puffing.

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/...rand-Batteries

You never did answer my earlier question do you have anything in the work's for a 30 inch and maybe a 35 inch Hull,I like the look of your Cowl's on most of your boat's and I'd even be happy with some Scaled down version's of Hull's you already make,I seem to remeber a certain builder in this Thread won't mention any names or anything like that but he said Electric's with Boat's is the Future,maybe you could have a talk with him and see if you can Twist his arm into making some 30 and 35 inch Hull's.

[KartRacer]

you are right. a lot changed with lipo packs,with ni-cads you had matched race packs that where expensive and not really worth the extra money for a guy that could not take advantage of the slight edge that was given for the money.However I raced on-road cars in the states series.Where you where trying to beat guys by a few car links to win.and every bit helped. with long drives to tracks,tires and hotel prices great batteries where just a small part of the racing cost.when lipo's came out and the internet was in top gear, everybody and there brother was making batteries, not just a few companies like sanyo and panasonic.So it was about labels, Horizon hobby's sell thundertiger batteries, and they are a trusted supplier.But they also charge to distribute product for the manufactures they distribute for.(part of the higher price) Then there are all the companies that make and sell direct.there prices are better but we are subject to what they put on there label. some are good,some not so much.in a lot of cases its the same battery with a different label and price.thats why I think brand name is a good way to go. but the brand has to be endorsed by guys using it and not selling it.and even that only goes so far.i had customers complaining about bad batteries from hobbyking and how they would not give any service.And im thinking for the price you paid. throw it away if it does not work. 80% of what they sold was fine, and at half what i was paying for a lipo as a dealer.You did not pay for service with that price.So years later.Some guys hate hobby king,and some guys love them.I do think you still get what you pay for in the end, whether its a great priced pack, or a great pack with service or that pack that just gives a slight edge.Brands do not get a great, or a bad name for no reason.I will support MarkF when the time comes and until there is a reason not to. he is a boater, he is on the form I posted.and he has come with some recommendations.I have been a great planes and horizon dealer for 22 years and have done 1/2 million dollar years in my shop. and to this day.neither company could care less about me out side of what Im buying.I dont know if Mark has the best price or not.But there is a great chance he has the best value.And I will support that.

Well said!!!

[expresscraft]

Thanks Dennis, Wade I kind of gave a answer in post #50 about the hulls, I would love to make some smaller hulls for electric, But I have to learn what I'm talking about first.I do know my way around boats pretty well,And I will pick up the electric side of things pretty fast. But its not easy selling models over the internet and sounding like a fool, plus its hard to overcome. so I will get some good connections.And learn what's what, for a little bit. I already have a big Doug wright hull in the works that I think will be a great electric cat.I also have a lot of smaller sea ray molds, that will make great electric boats, not for racing. just nice models.The good thing being a manufacture is the people I will have access to.So with that it will not be long, and you guys will have me flying right, on what we need in electric boats. Also just putting it out there, we can take people's good working boats and put them into production. A lot of modelers make great models, and never do anything with them but make 1 or 2, Because they don't want to do this for a living.If anyone has something like that drop me a e-mail. this is all I do.

[expresscraft]

Ok, I got lots of good feed back to my post, thank you on that. This is what I think I will recomend to my customer and try to start getting prices together for him, castle 2028 motors x2, Ice 200hv V2 esc x2,and I will talk to mark f on batteries,What other parts do you think I'll need?I read where a guy put the wrong connectors together and burnt his ESC.I need this to be user friendly for me and my customer.so what is the best way to go in connectors on big power? I have always used deans connectors. also what gauge and type wire do you guys suggest?I have 7.2 stuff on the roll, but I do not think its big enough for this.and of course is there anything Im missing?is this combo of parts going to be plug and play? Or do I have to do something else to make it work reliable,I already prep all my parts with corrosion x,what little things that I might not know need to be done?Or ordered so I dont get started and stalled in the middle over some little part.also are we in the 465-470 prop range?what would you suggest for a prop 12lb cat hull with lots of lift.thanks again

[T.S.Davis]

I run 8mm gold bullet connectors on everything over 6s. It's probably overkill. I wouldn't go smaller than 6mm on a 10s setup. Deans are only rated for 50 amps if I rememnber correctly. None of the parts you're getting will have any type of connector on them.

Did you already track down couplers? Motor shaft to flex cable.

Another worthy investment IMO is thrust bearings to place between the coupler and the motor face. Takes the lateral pressure off the rear motor bearing.

[expresscraft]

no I do not have a motor couplar,i will also need mounts,so i should run 8mm on my set up and be on the safe side as well? I would rather error on the side of to much instead of not enough,it's a big boat so once its shipped, its his, i will have done my job great if everything works well,if it fails me saying we did not spend enough will not make it ok.plus of course i want it to look great as well.i probably have thrust washers for 1/4" and 3/16.