R2 hobbies cat build

[keithbradley]

The 4074 will provide some 500 watts more or something along those lines, it can handle a bigger propeller and make your boat go faster. All at the cost of more amps drawn.

I wouldn't say "at the expense of more amps drawn...that's not really true.
The 4074 may be more effiecint under a high load and put out more power per Amp.

[keithbradley]

The R2 is the same hull as the HOTR and the original, the H&R Agitator. Mine was sold by Skunkworks, with a 3150 Kv Neu motor I set a record of 83 mph spinning a Prather 230 prop with one 4S1P/5000mAh 65C TP pack. This was a SAW-only high-end racing setup.


[ATTACH=CONFIG]78445[/ATTACH]

.

That's pretty impressive Jay. I assumed you used the hydra ICE in the pic? What kind of current did you log with it?
FYI: I'm not looking for setup info, just an idea how well the latest line of ICE ESCs are holding up under heavy load. I have two of the ICE200HVs going into a 41" cat build and I plan on running them fairly hard.

[keithbradley]

dbl pst

[Fluid]

I assumed you used the hydra ICE in the pic? What kind of current did you log with it? FYI: I'm not looking for setup info, just an idea how well the latest line of ICE ESCs are holding up under heavy load. I have two of the ICE200HVs going into a 41" cat build and I plan on running them fairly hard.

Keith, the ICE240 logged around 270 amps during the record 4S runs and 230 amps for the 6S runs - with peaks up to and over 350 amps. I made over 19 sets of SAW passes with that ICE240LV - both 4S and 6S - without a bobble. The same controller has been in my Q Sport Hydro oval racer ever since, continuing to give great service. I have been using ICE controllers for over two years, starting with the ICE100 and ICE200 airplane controllers and PiStix. All I had on them was a 25mm computer fan, yet they are working great. The ICE200 has been in my P Sport Hydro and P Mono powering a Neu 1521/1.5D averaging 170 to 190 amps - not even a hic-up after two years and countless race heats. I have logged ESC temps up to 250 degrees and no problems. No experience with the HV ICE controllers yet, but I really like the LV (which are good to 33.6 volts so 6S is no problem). The logging feature is outstanding. Like any ESC, don't run them if they get wet. Let them dry off for a day or three first. I spray mine with CorrosionX before I even solder on the connectors.


.

[keithbradley]

Keith, the ICE240 logged around 270 amps during the record 4S runs and 230 amps for the 6S runs - with peaks up to and over 350 amps. I made over 19 sets of SAW passes with that ICE240LV - both 4S and 6S - without a bobble. The same controller has been in my Q Sport Hydro oval racer ever since, continuing to give great service. I have been using ICE controllers for over two years, starting with the ICE100 and ICE200 airplane controllers and PiStix. All I had on them was a 25mm computer fan, yet they are working great. The ICE200 has been in my P Sport Hydro and P Mono powering a Neu 1521/1.5D averaging 170 to 190 amps - not even a hic-up after two years and countless race heats. I have logged ESC temps up to 250 degrees and no problems. No experience with the HV ICE controllers yet, but I really like the LV (which are good to 33.6 volts so 6S is no problem). The logging feature is outstanding. Like any ESC, don't run them if they get wet. Let them dry off for a day or three first. I spray mine with CorrosionX before I even solder on the connectors.


.

Thanks for the feedback. I too ran the ICE 100s and the 160HVs and they were great performers. My only bad experience was when they first came out with the HV 120, I got a pair that failed at the hit of the throttle and ruined a beautiful hull. I guess everyone has their "bad batches" and that was castle's.
Good to hear that the hydra series ESCs are performing well.

[znus]

I wouldn't say "at the expense of more amps drawn...that's not really true.
The 4074 may be more effiecint under a high load and put out more power per Amp.

Well, a 4074 might stay cooler but if the 4074 is going to deliver 500 watts more, at the same voltage, it's going to draw more amps.

[keithbradley]

Well, a 4074 might stay cooler but if the 4074 is going to deliver 500 watts more, at the same voltage, it's going to draw more amps.

Not really. You are assuming 100% efficiency, which is not the case. The energy provided to a motor takes two pathways: one to the prop, and the other in the form of heat. When a motor is outside it's efficiency range, energy is transfered via heat at an exponentially higher rate than when it's properly used. This is why a motor that is too small for a given application will run hot.

Also, the smaller motor is not majic. It's not going to pull 500W less and provide the same result.

[znus]

Im comparing a Leo 3674 2200kv and a Leo 4074 2200 kv, both claiming to be at 90% efficiency. Im assuming both are going to be fed 4s. Im also assuming the OP will prop accordingly to motor size, to benefit from the larger motor. His boat will surely pick up a knot or two doing this, wouldn't you agree? Getting that weight (from the boat iteslf) to a higher speed, all other things being equal except motor and prop, will require more watts. There's no other way around it.

If you somehow run a bigger motor with a bigger prop, gaining speed and at the same time manage to draw less amps/watts, please tell me how you do it. I'd really like to know.

[Prop-a-Gator]

...Next week, I'll pick up a fightercat 160a esc, or a 180 hobbywing / turnigy, if anyone has them in stock.

http://www.hobbypartz.com/96m802-4074-2150kv.html

The T180 is probably all you'll need, but if you had your heart set on a FC ESC, the 6S300A is on sale for $5 more. Though they may not be around till next week.

[keithbradley]

Im comparing a Leo 3674 2200kv and a Leo 4074 2200 kv, both claiming to be at 90% efficiency. Im assuming both are going to be fed 4s. Im also assuming the OP will prop accordingly to motor size, to benefit from the larger motor. His boat will surely pick up a knot or two doing this, wouldn't you agree? Getting that weight (from the boat iteslf) to a higher speed, all other things being equal except motor and prop, will require more watts. There's no other way around it.

If you somehow run a bigger motor with a bigger prop, gaining speed and at the same time manage to draw less amps/watts, please tell me how you do it. I'd really like to know.

Lets not get carried away here. You didn't say that a bigger prop will draw more current, you said the bigger motor would. I assume he's going to use the best prop for his boat, regardless of which motor he chooses.
In certain setups, you can turn a bigger prop with a bigger motor and draw less power. I'm not suggesting that should be the OP's goal, but in larger boats that does come in to play.

It's nice to read specs and assume 90%, 2000W, ect., but in the real world it doesn't always work out that way. You can't build boats on paper. What we learn in the water is much more valuable than factoring numbers you find on a manufacturer's website. If it were that simple, everyone would just use the motor with the lower power rating and the highest kv.

[properchopper]

Just because the packs say "40C" on the wrapper does not mean they really ARE 40C packs. Clearly, some pack assemblers are less than candid when telling the consumer the facts about their packs. We saw the same thing with round cells a decade ago, inaccurate labeling to get the consumer to buy sub-standard packs. I'm not saying that those packs are not 40C, but it sure doesn't sound like it.

Hot caps are usually caused by a high current ripple as the caps are constantly charged and discharged. Better cells will help, as will short power wires. Most installations will allow you to remove 2"-4" from each battery/ESC wire, reducing ripple and cooling the caps. The shorter the better, but they have to be long enough to be practical.

The R2 is the same hull as the HOTR and the original, the H&R Agitator. Mine was sold by Skunkworks, with a 3150 Kv Neu motor I set a record of 83 mph spinning a Prather 230 prop with one 4S1P/5000mAh 65C TP pack. This was a SAW-only high-end racing setup.


[ATTACH=CONFIG]78445[/ATTACH]

.

Jay's boat [from the Properchopper Video Vault]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOMZ4_7-vV0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxNrlVCNdH8

[ray schrauwen]

The T180 is probably all you'll need, but if you had your heart set on a FC ESC, the 6S300A is on sale for $5 more. Though they may not be around till next week.

Great reccomendation, I've got a couple coming.

[ratchet]

I want to go this route (turnigy 180), but they are on back order at a number of locations. I'll check back again tomorrow.

[znus]

Lets not get carried away here. You didn't say that a bigger prop will draw more current, you said the bigger motor would. I assume he's going to use the best prop for his boat, regardless of which motor he chooses.
In certain setups, you can turn a bigger prop with a bigger motor and draw less power. I'm not suggesting that should be the OP's goal, but in larger boats that does come in to play.

It's nice to read specs and assume 90%, 2000W, ect., but in the real world it doesn't always work out that way. You can't build boats on paper. What we learn in the water is much more valuable than factoring numbers you find on a manufacturer's website. If it were that simple, everyone would just use the motor with the lower power rating and the highest kv.

My post, which got our little debate going, said "The 4074 will provide some 500 watts more or something along those lines, it can handle a bigger propeller and make your boat go faster. All at the cost of more amps drawn". Maybe I was unclear with bigger propeller-part with the "it can handle a bigger propeller and make your boat go faster. All at the cost of more amps drawn." It seemed pretty clear to me

But I think we're both on the same track. English is not may native tongue and sometimes things can get a little unclear. I'm definitely not building boats on paper and Im guessing neither are you.

Happy boating