Hydra warranty change

[NorthernBoater]

they already do. wattage to some one who doesn't know how to setup a motor and esc and battery combo will be useless.
anyone knowing what they are doing with take voltage X amps to give you wattage.

As far as I know they do not give a wattage rating. We all know that the hydra 120 is not good for up to 120 amps when running 6s. This is why they need to give wattage rating.

[txboatpilot]

This is a very "wish washy" subject... I talked to a CC tech this week, his name is Bernie, he says the first production runs of the Hydra's had FETS that handled right at 25V, they have since upgraded all their FETS to handle "true 6S"... These were his words.... I asked if the warranty covers 6S usage and the answer was "yes"... He stated that the problems are coming from people over propping or running to high KV, which will over amp the esc... He said they are not seeing problems with voltage ratings, it is with people understanding how many Amps their set-up is pulling... He says that is the hardest thing for FE boaters to understand, is the AMP draw of a particular set-up....When people start "guessing" and then blow their esc's, that surely is not CC fault.... IMO

I am a VERY BIG FAN, of CC controller's.... I have used barr 80-120's and hydra 120-240's,,,,, I have had a couple fail, but it was due to my set-up pulling to many amps!! My fault.... I have used a number of these esc's with GREAT reliablity....

I have purchased the new HV-120, HV-180, and HV-240...To try in different set-up's over the next couple months.. I have ran the HV-180 in my 40" Insane Cat on 10S lipo with no problems and no heat issues!! I need to do more testing, but the first impressions were great...

I like being able to call the CC tech dept. and have a "live person" to talk to...

I can say I have had nothing but good luck with CC controllers!!!

[txboatpilot]

I have a friend that races in our club, that runs both Hydra 120 and 240 on 6S along with Feigao 12XL motors(no bec and runs a rec. pack on both)... He runs 1 in a SV27 and the other in a 29" Hydro... Neither seem to have any problems or heat issues, but he does not over prop the boats.... Each run on 2x 3S 5000mAh 20C lipos in series for 6S total...

I think the main problem is from people not knowing or understanding how many Amps they are pulling....JMO

[Bill-SOCAL]

Bill I have to totally disagree. The entire problem is that they are not being used within the parameters!.

See, the problem is all they do is list the cell count and a max amp rating. It is up to the user to determine if it will take it. They are now saying that the users are not doing that so they are going to severely limit what they will cover.

Tell me, did you EVER hear them say that 4S was too much? I didn't. Now it is. So they are stepping back from th original defined parameters that they published.

It all comes down to the fact that amp rating is irrelevant in the real world. So is voltage to some extent. It is ALL abut the power rating and what they are now doing is trying to hold down the power by limiting the cell count.

That is all I am saying.

And Yes, I know they are an American company and that they design and build in the US. They do use too many non-US parts to qualify as labeling Made in the US for the silly California law. My point there is that the mere fact that they are an American company is not sufficient to overlook other aspects of their business operations. Sure, I support American companies when I can. But I do not support them ONLY because they are American. I am sure that in some circles that makes me a bad guy. Oh Well.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Bill any time we build a boat we are the designer of that craft. If we build it wrong, its not the parts manufacturers fault that we ran it out of their specs.

I agree that by limiting voltage they are trying to limit amperage. Because "obviously" the people that are blowing them have no idea on how to rate the amperage. For years they have told us not to go over a "x" amp rating, that didn't work. But its easy as reading a label to not go over 3s. So here we are. It sucks all together.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Bill any time we build a boat we are the designer of that craft. If we build it wrong, its not the parts manufacturers fault that we ran it out of their specs.

I agree that by limiting voltage they are trying to limit amperage. Because "obviously" the people that are blowing them have no idea on how to rate the amperage. For years they have told us not to go over a "x" amp rating, that didn't work. But its easy as reading a label to not go over 3s. So here we are. It sucks all together.

My point exactly.

[Doozie870]

I know little about brushless esc's and probably should not post on this, but the brushless esc's I have observed seem to have a pattern, start out at half, 3/4, and then full, maybe people are running them longer in 3/4 than they should because the boat is not controllable at full throttle.

[Doug Smock]

I'm not worried about it. I'll continue running the Hydras in reasonable, raceable setups on 4 and 6s.
For the high power setups I'll continue to run my 40.160s. At least until the HVs have a track record.

Doug

[Xzessperated]

I know little about brushless esc's and probably should not post on this, but the brushless esc's I have observed seem to have a pattern, start out at half, 3/4, and then full, maybe people are running them longer in 3/4 than they should because the boat is not controllable at full throttle.

So it was you who was watching me.

[10gauge]

A lot of valid points are being made and the ones who are advocating a wattage rating for ESC are right.

If motors or engines are measured by the power they produce, why can't we rate ESCs in terms of their power handling capacity. After all, ESCs regulate and modulate the power being delivered to the motor. The unit of power is always reported in watts, joules, hp or VA.

ESCs should be rated like amplifiers. Ideally, there should be an RMS (Continuous Average Power) and MAX power rating to establish a level of dynamic headroom to account for any peaks. Even the same type of MOSFET transistors that power ESCs, have ratings for the power they dissipate. Guess what, It's quoted in WATTS! And usually it's quoted by their RMS and/or MAX wattage values. The ratio of RMS to MAX power is about 70%.

The ESC manufacturer needs to specify what the RMS (Continuous Average Power) and the MAX wattage value should be and that's through running actual setups. That way people can have a idea of how much headroom they have left in their setup. Even LiPos have their "C" rating which resembles an RMS/MAX type rating.

It's the responsibility of the manufacturer to supply necessary information that can be universally applied to setup. RC boating is the extreme example of this, the constant high torque demanded by the motor, ESC, and battery close to maximum levels all the time!


On an aside: I have said it before that there needs to be a consensus among manufacturers to have standardization, whether it's quoting power, ratings, or LiPo taps/chargers. There are all different kinds of LiPo taps. Once manufacturers communicate with each other and agree on standards, then they can become more successful individually and collectively by forming an "industry," just like in the formation of RIAA in the audio industry, and not adopt a "every man for himself" approach to business. Industry standards are what can save companies from obsolescence.

[NorthernBoater]

A lot of valid points are being made and the ones who are advocating a wattage rating for ESC are right.

If motors or engines are measured by the power they produce, why can't we rate ESCs in terms of their power handling capacity. After all, ESCs regulate and modulate the power being delivered to the motor. The unit of power is always reported in watts, joules, hp or VA.

ESCs should be rated like amplifiers. Ideally, there should be an RMS (Continuous Average Power) and MAX power rating to establish a level of dynamic headroom to account for any peaks. Even the same type of MOSFET transistors that power ESCs, have ratings for the power they dissipate. Guess what, It's quoted in WATTS! And usually it's quoted by their RMS and/or MAX wattage values. The ratio of RMS to MAX power is about 70%.

The ESC manufacturer needs to specify what the RMS (Continuous Average Power) and the MAX wattage value should be and that's through running actual setups. That way people can have a idea of how much headroom they have left in their setup. Even LiPos have their "C" rating which resembles an RMS/MAX type rating.

It's the responsibility of the manufacturer to supply necessary information that can be universally applied to setup. RC boating is the extreme example of this, the constant high torque demanded by the motor, ESC, and battery close to maximum levels all the time!


On an aside: I have said it before that there needs to be a consensus among manufacturers to have standardization, whether it's quoting power, ratings, or LiPo taps/chargers. There are all different kinds of LiPo taps. Once manufacturers communicate with each other and agree on standards, then they can become more successful individually and collectively by forming an "industry," just like in the formation of RIAA in the audio industry, and not adopt a "every man for himself" approach to business. Industry standards are what can save companies from obsolescence.

I completely agree with you on that. I do embedded programing for software defined radios and it would be a mess if we did not have the IEEE standards. Every other industry agrees on standards. Is there any way we can convince Castle that they need to also gave power rating that the ESC can handle safely?

[Jeepers]

the problem is still getting the person not to use a 8s feiago on 4s lipo!
if they are building this type of set up they probably dont know what watts mean.

[Steven Vaccaro]

the problem is still getting the person not to use a 8s feiago on 4s lipo!
if they are building this type of set up they probably don't know what watts mean.

DING, DING, DING, Give that man a cigar!

ALSO
In a round about way they are rated in watts. the max voltage x the max amperage = the max watts.

The problem comes from someone running outside one of those parameters. I bet 99% of the time its the amperage parameter. Its a unknown for LOTS of people.

This is listed on the hv page on castles site.

Controller Amps Watts Horsepower
Hydra HV-60 60 3,000 4
Hydra HV-120 120 6,000 8
Hydra HV-180 180 9,000 12
Hydra HV-240 240 12,000 16

[domwilson]

My question is, this warranty change, is it for new ESC's or for all?
If you state a product will perform under certain conditions with given specifications, without real specifics; can the terms of the warranty be changed after a purchase? 3S is half of their stated rating. I was under the impression that the warranty covered the ESC's when used in accordance with their stated ratings.

[Jeepers]

DING, DING, DING, Give that man a cigar!

I just placed an order with you Steve, feel free to send the cigar as well!