Restrictor Plate racing

[Darin Jordan]

BUT if you leave battery selection and prop selection open there is nothing limited or spec about the class...

I DO NOT disagree...

I'm not in favor of limiting the batteries, but that's just me. That seems a little extreme to me, but whatever works for you.

I advocated limiting the prop, and the original (written for the first "official Spec SV27 race at the 2007 Nationals) Spec SV27 rules do (Grim 42x55). I have no issues there. In a one-hull class, that works. I'd go so far as to have a batch of them, and hand them out between rounds, drawn from a hat, etc...

In an Open Hull class, each hull needs something a little different, and it eventually BECOMES a "one-hull-can-be-competitive" class, so limiting props here doesn't always work.

I think in a one-hull spec class (note, not "stock", but "spec"), there can be some allowances made that don't overtly change the performance of the boat, but make it more reliable, race-able, whatever... like replacing the flex with a similar to stock aftermarket unit, couplers, etc...

Either way you slice it up, this type of class is the most viable, and more accessible class format, and would have the best chance of achieving what Randy and Wilmer apparently are after.

[properchopper]

My humble apologies.....yes, any of the fine ProBoat offerings could also be used for a true RTR class..

Me Too, obviously

[RandyatBBY]

OK you guys are getting it sort of, I am trying to take most of the buying out of the equazion to use what we all already have to a point. We will be running Offshore, OPC tunnel, Sport Hydro and Hydro. In time we will have about 12 1/8 scales to run too. Guys like John F and Joe S. have said that they will be coming back to the club racing.

[RandyatBBY]

Oh I forgot we all will be on the honor system about keeping the speed ware the comfort range is best for all concerned to keep interest and growth up. Actually my first plan is to have a tuning session on Sunday before the race and set up each boat to run the coarse. I will find the speed of the boat with my GPS then change the boat to run the correct speed. For a boat needs a bigger motor to get up to the speed I am loaning the person what he needs until he can afford to buy one. If any one is not running the motor, prop, ESC and batteries on the list for them they will be disqualified by the CD.

[Darin Jordan]

OK you guys are getting it sort of, I am trying to take most of the buying out of the equazion to use what we all already have to a point. We will be running Offshore, OPC tunnel, Sport Hydro and Hydro. In time we will have about 12 1/8 scales to run too. Guys like John F and Joe S. have said that they will be coming back to the club racing.

Randy,

It seems an impossible task to me, but perhaps I'm not that sort of visionary. It just seems technically challenged on many levels. Equipment-wise, and based on the limitations you've imposed, I just think it's wrought with challenges.

Perhaps what you ought to do is setup "Bracket Racing" instead. No GPS needed... just a timer on the course. If you break-out of some pre-determined 6-lap time, you are out. Seems to be what works for Drag racing, and one HELL of a lot easier to implement. Definitely addresses your "run-what-you-brung" part of the equation, and you could put in a rule about having to be on plane or whatever from the exit of 4 to the finish line, or something like that...

I'm not sure it's something I'd want to do, but it would achieve the same thing you are trying to do, without the complexities of trying to limit actual physical power.

Just a thought.

[Darin Jordan]

Perhaps what you ought to do is setup "Bracket Racing" instead.

You could even have the "fastest" boat or whatever establish the "bracket time" at the beginning of each event or ??? Or just setup a bracket time for the season and go from there...

Might work. Would certainly present a new set of driving/race-management challenges.

And I still think that people would get just as frustrated when they are still getting our-raced.

Still... it might work.

[RandyatBBY]

One thing that will promote the racing is for me or any one with much higher skills not to win all the races. The lack of ego, argument and greed will help. I like to watch my friends have a good time. Sometimes I like to be among them (run) and some times watch. As we have more people to run then I will not need to race all the classes to have enough entry to make the classes.

[RandyatBBY]

You could even have the "fastest" boat or whatever establish the "bracket time" at the beginning of each event or ??? Or just setup a bracket time for the season and go from there...

Might work. Would certainly present a new set of driving/race-management challenges.

And I still think that people would get just as frustrated when they are still getting our-raced.

Still... it might work.

Bracket racing works for straight line but on a oval not so good.


On the amp draw that Brian mentioned with voltage, a big motor and the right prop I can get around the problem and go faster

Thanks for the input.

[Darin Jordan]

One thing that will promote the racing is for me or any one with much higher skills not to win all the races. The lack of ego, argument and greed will help.

I'm going to let my initial reaction to this slide for now, because I think I know what you are trying to say. I reject the notion that those winning races have an unusual amount of "ego", argue a great deal, or are greedy in any way. Pride in workmanship, a love of the hobby, a drive to achieve, the ability to set goals and focus on them, and a lot of generosity in sharing information with racing counterparts... THAT is what I generally have seen and experienced, and participated in, at pretty much every RC event I've attended. I'm sorry if others have not experienced the same. I know for a FACT that there are racers out there who have set SAW and 2-Lap records THANKS to the generosity of other racers at the event, even when it meant giving UP their own record in the process. And, yes, even Wilmer has been the recipient of someone handing him the RECORD holding prop, and giving it to him to go out and establish a new record. We all know the stories, and it continues to this day.

If you want to keep "novices" from being out-performed by more skilled/experienced racers, then a Novice class is the obvious choice. Perhaps you should even define what a Novice is, like we did in the SCCA and our local Conference Sports Car racing clubs. You had to meet certain requirements to advance OUT of being a Novice.

I can tell you that I WISH there were enough people involved to actually fill a Novice class, because there have been some SCARY moments on the course at our Club events when less experienced racers were battling to control their over-powered boats and nearly took out the field in the process... or DID take out the leaders... It's happened, and still does.

[Darin Jordan]

Bracket racing works for straight line but on a oval not so good.


On the amp draw that Brian mentioned with voltage, a big motor and the right prop I can get around the problem and go faster

Thanks for the input.

Well... it will be interesting to watch what you guys come up with, because I'm not sure how one would go about limiting performance without limiting performance. That's an interesting problem to solve.

[RandyatBBY]

I'm going to let my initial reaction to this slide for now, because I think I know what you are trying to say. I reject the notion that those winning races have an unusual amount of "ego", argue a great deal, or are greedy in any way. Pride in workmanship, a love of the hobby, a drive to achieve, the ability to set goals and focus on them, and a lot of generosity in sharing information with racing counterparts... THAT is what I generally have seen and experienced, and participated in, at pretty much every RC event I've attended. I'm sorry if others have not experienced the same. I know for a FACT that there are racers out there who have set SAW and 2-Lap records THANKS to the generosity of other racers at the event, even when it meant giving UP their own record in the process. And, yes, even Wilmer has been the recipient of someone handing him the RECORD holding prop, and giving it to him to go out and establish a new record. We all know the stories, and it continues to this day.

If you want to keep "novices" from being out-performed by more skilled/experienced racers, then a Novice class is the obvious choice. Perhaps you should even define what a Novice is, like we did in the SCCA and our local Conference Sports Car racing clubs. You had to meet certain requirements to advance OUT of being a Novice.

I can tell you that I WISH there were enough people involved to actually fill a Novice class, because there have been some SCARY moments on the course at our Club events when less experienced racers were battling to control their over-powered boats and nearly took out the field in the process... or DID take out the leaders... It's happened, and still does.

Skill, Pride in workmanship, a love of the hobby, a drive to achieve, the ability to set goals and focus on them, and a lot of generosity in sharing information with racing counterparts... will always be what I strive for. I love to watch Survivor but do not want to live it. I have high ideals I try to live them to the best of my ability and circumstances. It is ware I am going with this. Think positive, be positive live positive.

I am amazed at what Brian has done in N2 Hydro and wanted to talk to him for insight but a old friend that I have not seen for 22 years from Oregon came to visit me for a month and I had no extra time. that is another story though.

[T.S.Davis]

To add to Mikes description.....it's for our club. We'll see how it goes and let you all know. It may fail still. Might make a nice road map for how to build a club.......or not. I would have been comfortable with Mystics. Easy breezy lemon squeezy no brainer boats. We have no plans to impose it on the masses.

Question for the new guys if they're reading. Do you want to race against just other new guys? I used to think that was the way to go but do you learn as much? Right down to the driving. The plan with our experiment is to share everything we find with the boats with each other so we all learn together with boats that are basically equal.

Plus, how do you approach potential new guys with a newby only class? If it's strictly a new guy class it would sound like this:

Hey, we'll build a brand new class just for new guys if you'll come out and play. All you have to do is find two more guys to race against. You guys will be on your own and wont have to race against anyone that's ever raced before. If you can't bring 3 guys there wont be a class. Oh and you can only run that investmemt for one season. Then you're seasoned and have to buy something new to run a different class. Let us know when you're ready. Sure we'll get right on that.

My observation is that you need to pick a class and support it. Classes need new guys and experienced guys to make them go. Guys need to know that when they get to the pond their class is going to race. If it's LSO you need your existing members to build and run LSO boats (just an example pick any class). 10th scale up in Seattle is a prime example. One idea and they stuck with it. You can own what ever you want but to support your club you need to run the clubs classes. Once you get a core group that runs consistantly together then you can add in some high zoot madness for the experienced guys if you have the numbers. This formula seems to be working up here of late.

[RandyatBBY]

My observation is that you need to pick a class and support it. Classes need new guys and experienced guys to make them go. Guys need to know that when they get to the pond their class is going to race. If it's LSO you need your existing members to build and run LSO boats (just an example pick any class). 10th scale up in Seattle is a prime example. One idea and they stuck with it. You can own what ever you want but to support your club you need to run the clubs classes. Once you get a core group that runs consistantly together then you can add in some high zoot madness for the experienced guys if you have the numbers. This formula seems to be working up here of late.

Excellent good advise,

I think sometimes that to put a newbie driver in the pond with a boat that I put 150 hours in to that he needs to prove he can drive first. I never want to run a favorite boat of mine with a newbie. Luckily I have several to choose from.

[D. Newland]

...Question for the new guys if they're reading. Do you want to race against just other new guys?

This is an excellent question. For the past few years now, I've been paying attention to threads like this (well, the last 50% of this thread because it seems to be on track) and it always seems that experienced racers think they know what the the new guys want, or should want. I stopped trying to "know" what new racers want because there is no perfect or easy answer. Every person, situation and club is different.

Instead, I'm focused on club class uniformity year after year with classes that pull big national numbers. Classes that we all support and enjoy racing. Maybe I or we aren't doing it right, but we failed about 5 years ago by trying to add more classes each year. We lost some interest by doing that.

And, carnage is going to happen. Period. Segmenting the rookies all together isn't going to solve anything in this regard. The top guys need to avoid dead wood or an irratic boat, no matter who they are racing against. Trust me, there are experienced racers that have won National Championships that you need to pay attention to. We all have our moments.

I will say this. When I started in '02 it was just Pat, Pete Boyle, Jake Bushaw and me. We stuck to N-2 Mono and LSH. Not enough of us to segment out the rookies! I wouldn't be where I am today in this hobby if I didn't get the chance to rub decks with Dick Crowe and Douggie Twaits Jr at the '03 Nat's. There is no way I would have wanted to be put in a Rookie class. Screw that. Let me race the best and see where I stack up...and where I need to improve.

So, if you feel having a rookie class is the way to go, make sure it's what they want, not what you think they want.

Randy-I hope that Joe and John make it back on the scene.

[T.S.Davis]

Who knows really. It's working here at the moment. Might be total crap where you are. We were all over the place for a long time. Ken was scale, I liked offshore, Dennis would be running sports, Hainer liked his cats no matter if they fit a class or not. We ranged from 6 cells to 32 cells and we might not even show up to race each other with the same boats. It was madness. We were never focused on the same thing at the same time. I pulled back from trying to put a boat in every class there was. It was a conscious decision that some of us made to try to expand our ranks. Sorta worked.

The spec classes are the first I've seen that are fast enough to hold the interest of the veterans, technically possible for a relatively new racer, and relatively inexpensive all things considered. Equipment failures suck but we're not seeing many. It helps a lot to take a look at the new guys stuff before they have problems. We forget though sometimes. I know my boat can turn prop X,Y,Z (what ever it may be). Throw it on the new guys boat and thaza fire. I really don't think you have to be Buass to compete on most given Sundays on most ponds in the US. No offense Brian. LOL It's not the nationals every Sunday.

....and if you do live in an area where you have to race Brian every time you run just make him setup your boat. He'll do it or at least show you how.