What am I missing?

**Darin Jordan** · 12-02-2011, 10:07 AM

Terry... Ask yourself ONE question: "WHO is doing the recommending???"

I'll give you a hint... When you don't have a full understanding of how these power systems work, and how to properly tinker on a prop, you add more power to compensate.

When you do know how to do those things... you have 60+ mph P-Ltd boats, and 74+ mph P-OPC tunnels, etc....

**AlanN** · 12-02-2011, 10:56 AM

Darn, I can't find the emoticon of someone getting a spanking!

**Fluid** · 12-02-2011, 11:08 AM

Terry, there is a very good reason for having a 6S Miss Geico - low amp draw, low heat, and longer run times. For the same performance, a 6S setup is milder than a 4S setup. The result is a more reliable boat and longer run times. This is a good trend IMO.

However, if the reason for a 6S Miss Geico is for more speed than is available from a 4S setup, then the builder has to recognize that his boat will be less reliable, will flip often, and will not be as much fun overall. But then some folks just want speed over all else....

.

**jimi911** · 12-02-2011, 11:11 AM

Its the same in every form of racing. You add power for speed. Its the simplest way to do it. You don't have to worry about setup, you don't have to worry about expertise. Just add more HP. So that's what people do.

We race spec OPC classes in the USA and Canada with APBA. Most racers or speed freaks always gravitate to the simpliest way to get instant speed increases from their RC boat or car, or real boat or car. Of course, once people figure out more about setup than the speeds go through the roof and safety becomes a concern. That's were we are getting to in our full scale boat racing in Canada. We have a class of 13 food v-bottoms that is supposed to be a 65mph entry level class. Most get any prop, and have begin moding up their motors for speed to be competitive. Now they are learning about props and setup and our 65 mph may be a 75mph class. That ain't good. I've been racing for 18 years and I have never been more nervous about a racing season ... and this is my hobby class!

The FE thing is the same, because you can easily get the power to make a missile of a hull and its dangerous. I remember the first time I had my N2 Viper repowered with the 1515 2s2p setup in 2005 ... people were running off the dock and I remember the hull damn near loosing it around a bunch of kids that were just watching it run ... woke me up fast.

**T.S.Davis** · 12-02-2011, 11:11 AM

Holy crap, a Nayman sighting. Hope you are well.

I suppose Darin. It's like me making up for my lack of driving ability with great gobs of speed. In my defense, my driving has improved.

Not trying to turn this into a chest thumping pee pee contest. I just don't know why guys are hell bent on going 80 mph with tiny little boats. OR with boats that are going to explode on impact. If your running SAW sure go for it. You know the risk if your a SAW tool. That doesn't mean I would recommend it to someone. I've had boats break on impact. Sucks. If that had been my only boat or my first real investment in boats I might have called it quits.

**T.S.Davis** · 12-02-2011, 11:20 AM

If you want run time from a Geico you can throw in 4s2p and get it. Nobody goes to 6s thinking lower amp draw more run time. Well, in fairness maybe somebody does. I just haven't seen/read that. It's usually a quest for more instantaneous speed. A Geico canopy will explode on 4s if your pushing hard and it lands just right. On 6s you'll be hiring a diver to find the parts. Not because the Geico is a bad hull. It just has no bidness running into the 60's. There isn't enough glass there for that.

**Fluid** · 12-02-2011, 11:41 AM

Terrry, I guess you don't read my posts. I often recommend running higher voltages for lower amp draw and extended run time, not for higher speeds. Some folks even take that advice, wild isn't it? I don't know how you figure you can get the same run time runnning 4S2P. 100 amps x 15 volts = 1500 watts, 68 amps x 22 volts = 1500 watts, so the same performance. 6S2P/5000 means over 7 minutes WOT run time while 4S2P/5000 means only 4.8 minutes. Reliability will be better and temps will be much lower on 6S too. Plus, if you ever do want to prop up for giggles one day, you can. What's not to like?

.

**Punisher 67** · 12-02-2011, 11:52 AM

Yes that is definitely a trend that is starting to catch on with some of the sport boaters , higher voltage with lower amp draw on lower KV motors - easier on hardware with more run time - sounds better everytime I hear it................

**T.S.Davis** · 12-02-2011, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Fluid

Terrry, I guess you don't read my posts. .

Maybe your right. You've known me a long time Jay. Maybe I only hear what I want to. haha I have read threads where you encourage guys to go for the 10s setup on some boats that might maybe work on 8s or even 6s for just that reason.

I just don't think these small boats are built the same as what I would traditioanlly think of as a 6s boat. There is a lot of difference between builds of a 29ish inch boat vs. a 36ish inch boat. The glass on say a Team Believer for instance is quite substantial compared to a Geico or a Motley. If I was sure everyone was just trying to lower their amp draw I would be less confused by it. The low amp draw is understandable. It's that prop up for giggles side of the equation that's scary.

Is it time to rethink the manufacturing of that size range?

**Darin Jordan** · 12-02-2011, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Fluid

For the same performance, a 6S setup is milder than a 4S setup. The result is a more reliable boat and longer run times. This is a good trend IMO.

That IS a good point.... From the perspective of more reliability, easier amp draw, and longer run-times, then higher voltage can make sense...

I'm not sure this was what Terry was referring to, however...

Your point, Jay, about the voltaging-up for more speed... that's kind of what I was addressing... It seems to me that a lot of guys power up, and bolt-on a prop, and spend the $$ on new equipment, to get up to the speeds that others are able to get out of proper tuning.

However... if the result is MORE FUN... then to each their own! It's all good, as long as we are having SAFE fun with R/C boats...

**lenny** · 12-02-2011, 12:33 PM

Yes that sounds good to me,

Reliability and low amps and more run time, And fun to boot,

I am sold on that.

Yep that is all I want for my boats for sport running,
Just a good balanced setup.

Thanks to everyone that helps with that balance.

Lenny D

**Darin Jordan** · 12-02-2011, 12:45 PM

I'm not against higher voltage setups at all... However, there are "safe" levels that I do think should be considered... More might be "better", but it may not be "good"...

Electrical injury - Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock

If you consider just how fast a contact disappears when you accidentally dead-short a 4S pack... just imagine how it would happen with a 10S+ pack.

I know, I know... people have to be responsible, etc... Well... we ALL know that "things happen"... and even the most careful have a slip-up now and then... On 4S you'll get burned... on 16S (or whatever)... you'll be dead.

Kept to reasonable levels... I like that we have so many valid options to get to the speeds we desire. That was kind of my point above, as well... Some can break 50 on 4S on limited power... for others... it takes more power. That's part of the fun of this hobby...

**m4a1usr** · 12-02-2011, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Darin Jordan

If you consider just how fast a contact disappears when you accidentally dead-short a 4S pack... just imagine how it would happen with a 10S+ pack.

That may be part of the "trend" Terry is commenting about. Not inexperienced sport boaters driving a 5 foot long, 35 pound missle into the side of a canoe quietly entertaining mom and pop on a saturday afternoon. With 14S and higher speedos available the danger to individuals looms greater as not everyone knows 'trons'.

A pair of 10,000 mAH 14S packs has enough energy to hurt people standing 4 or 5 feet away from some novice dinking around without respect to what he has infront of him. I agree there is a dangerous trend developing and am sure someone, somewhere will do the unthinkable. God forbid.

John

**AlanN** · 12-02-2011, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by T.S.Davis

Holy crap, a Nayman sighting. Hope you are well.

Always lurking. Doing as best as possible. Thanks, hope the same for you and fam as well. Gonna try to design and build some new stuff for next season...may even have an FE race in these parts. Talk to Howard 'bout that. And now back to the thread.

I support just about any FE boating interest. Maybe this will lead to fewer power classes. We seem to be almost eliminating the N class which P spec has well overcome in popularity. Aside from Darrin,Willie and a few others sawing their way to posterity, little N racing is showing up at venues. P Q and T are all we require IMO for now.

Hey, why don't we write a new proposal regarding the length limits again? I love those winter time soap operas. :)

What am I missing?

What am I missing?

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