Namba SAW Events

[bbill1]

I have been to a few Impba SAW events in the recent past and have become familiar with the technical inspection process they use.

Having never attended a Namba SAW event, but would like to, my question is how does Namba 'Tech' the boats at a SAW event?

Do the boats need to be inspected by multiple people? Can they be just anyone there? Or must it be performed only by official(s). Is the inspection process performed before or after the run?

Also, What are the actual steps inspecting these boats?

I have recently become active in the FE side,(especially the limited classes) of our hobby so naturally I am curious about how they are inspected as well.

For instance; The P-Ltd classes are restricted to approved motors only. How are these motors inspected to verify conformity?

Specifically, there are non-conforming motors that are identical in dimension, yet much more powerful than the approved motors. Parts between these non-conforming and approved motors can be interchanged with little or no modification or visible alteration. How is this addressed in the inspection process to ensure it is a truly "legal" motor?

What are the voltage limits (high and/or low) for the FE classes and when and how are they measured and by whom?

Again, just curious having never been to a Namba SAW event.

Finally, Our club, Brandon Model Boaters of Florida is Namba sanctioned, Our course has been certified, and we are interested in holding a SAW event at some time in the future. What are the steps required to obtain the Namba certified timing equipment?

Since there was a recent Namba SAW event held at Legg Lake, perhaps one on the officials from that event can let me know the process so that when I do attend a Namba sanctioned time trial, or, if our club does decide to host one, I/we will be familiar with the process.

I appreciate any input you can provide.

[RaceMechaniX]

Bill,

I will start a response to your questions and as an avid SAW racer hopefully I can steer you in the right direction. For any record run (I am limiting my reponses to FE here), after a record run at least one person familar with FE rules will monitor the untaping of the hull and check the battery limits and motor per the rules. A volt meter may be used to verify cell voltages if it is unclear or suspect. The hull will be checked for class conformance i.e. length, ride surfaces, etc. Currently we do not tear down the motors nor do we hook them up to a kV tester to verify numbers. However, I believe several individuals are working on writing up a technical inspection guideline which adresses the issues mentioned specifically with P-ltd and M2. The motors were visually checked for correct engravings as well as any possible tampering.

For a SAW course, you need a 1/16" section surveyed and permanently marked to be a legal course. For example, Legg Lake has 2" steel posts buried in the shore and out in the islands (far side) to which the timing lights are mounted to. I am not sure how NAMBA handles the timing lights and equipment, I believe the Legg Lake Timing lights are owned by our District (District 19). I know District 8 has their own timing light set as I am sure others due as well.

From the rule book:

TIMING EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS
1. The device or devices used to time record runs will be, in all cases, capable of
measuring the run to the nearest 1/100th second. Devices capable of measuring runs
to a small fraction of a second may also be accepted. But no device of any kind will
be accepted for record purposes unless it is listed by NAMBA as an approved timing
device. All timing equipment must meet specifications set up by the Record
Chairman, copies of which will be furnished upon request.
2. Special timing equipment considerations may apply to specific record types as
specified in individual sections.
3. Timing equipment specifications must accompany the first sanction application for
record trials and/or racing competition.

The records chairman Mark Grim would be the person to contact to learn more about the specifics. His contact info is listed on the NAMBA contacts page here: http://namba.com/content/contacts.asp

[cybercrxt]

Bill,

I will start a response to your questions and as an avid SAW racer hopefully I can steer you in the right direction. For any record run (I am limiting my reponses to FE here), after a record run at least one person familar with FE rules will monitor the untaping of the hull and check the battery limits and motor per the rules. A volt meter may be used to verify cell voltages if it is unclear or suspect. The hull will be checked for class conformance i.e. length, ride surfaces, etc. Currently we do not tear down the motors nor do we hook them up to a kV tester to verify numbers. However, I believe several individuals are working on writing up a technical inspection guideline which adresses the issues mentioned specifically with P-ltd and M2. The motors were visually checked for correct engravings as well as any possible tampering.

For a SAW course, you need a 1/16" section surveyed and permanently marked to be a legal course. For example, Legg Lake has 2" steel posts buried in the shore and out in the islands (far side) to which the timing lights are mounted to. I am not sure how NAMBA handles the timing lights and equipment, I believe the Legg Lake Timing lights are owned by our District (District 19). I know District 8 has their own timing light set as I am sure others due as well.

From the rule book:

TIMING EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS
1. The device or devices used to time record runs will be, in all cases, capable of
measuring the run to the nearest 1/100th second. Devices capable of measuring runs
to a small fraction of a second may also be accepted. But no device of any kind will
be accepted for record purposes unless it is listed by NAMBA as an approved timing
device. All timing equipment must meet specifications set up by the Record
Chairman, copies of which will be furnished upon request.
2. Special timing equipment considerations may apply to specific record types as
specified in individual sections.
3. Timing equipment specifications must accompany the first sanction application for
record trials and/or racing competition.

The records chairman Mark Grim would be the person to contact to learn more about the specifics. His contact info is listed on the NAMBA contacts page here: http://namba.com/content/contacts.asp

OK, I'm just gonna throw this out here, because to be honest, this is a valid question, and everyone out there wants to know the answer:

"A volt meter may be used to verify cell voltages if it is unclear or suspect."

So this is how NAMBA handles voltage testing???? I have heard enough to know that I will stick with the IMBPA so there will be no doubt in my mind, or anyone elses that my speeds are real, valid, and within the max limits of my set class. Why would I even want anyone NOT to check my voltages. I push my boats into the techs hands, WITH an additional witness to check hull length, voltage, and all equipment inside or outside of my hulls for legitimacy. All of these numbers are written down on the record sheet so the directors can view it at any time. Pictures are also taken of the inside of the hulls in case there are any further questions. Why would NAMBA leave something so necessary so open ended?

Another thing I would like to ask. Are the laser beam locations set up on a surveyed, varified course so that the lights are a square, correct 330ft with 90 degree angles, as a distance as small as a foot or more can completely throw off the timing equipment.

Drive on fellas.

Mike

[Darin Jordan]

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[Darin Jordan]

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[cybercrxt]

Just to be clear, what does the NAMBA rules say? Check voltage or not? With saying "may" it leaves things open ended. Simple as that. Like I said, I'm asking the game, not the player. Just be chill, its toy boats!

[T.S.Davis]

IMPBA doesn't have P limited anything. No such thing.

You came on pretty strong there Mike. Not really necessary. Was it checked? At a SAW event I gaurantee it was. The hosting club wants to protect it's integrity too.

There is no way to verify a P limited motor with absolute certainty. That's why there should be no records for any of those classes. My opinion only on that.

[Darin Jordan]

"Walt Disney called Legg Lake the other day, stating Disney World was the only place where fantasy could become reality.
Jack Had Magic Beans, Lt. Dan had Magic Legs, Legg Lake has Magic Times."

Your tag line says it all concerning your motivation in this... I should have just kept my mouth shut and left you guys to deal with your own insecurities... The Amigos run a tight ship, and everything accomplished there was accomplished within the letter of the rules... If you have issues with that, take it up with the CD of the event and the hosting club.

[bbill1]

I was asking a legitimate question regarding P-Ltd motoers.

Still do have not heard an answer yet.

/B

[Darin Jordan]

I was asking a legitimate question regarding P-Ltd motoers.

Still do have not heard an answer yet.

/B

Ummm.... YES, you did...

Currently we do not tear down the motors nor do we hook them up to a kV tester to verify numbers. However, I believe several individuals are working on writing up a technical inspection guideline which adresses the issues mentioned specifically with P-ltd and M2. The motors were visually checked for correct engravings as well as any possible tampering.

Although, M2 is an "ANY" motor class, so this isn't completely correct...

[cybercrxt]

Darin, I didn't start the thread, but after seeing a "may" I had questions. Believe me, I am not the only one with questions, I'm just one of the few not in positions of power that can ask questions about the rules. And you are right, I have tons of opinions about some of the numbers, my opinions were not in my post, legitamete questions were. Everyone has opinions, they are like .... and I have been known to speak my mind. As Bill said above, the questions have still not been answered. I think we all don't care to see answers like "I can trust him", I want to see 15.37 volts were on the meter, because that has always been asked of me.

[T.S.Davis]

Now that I think about it your pretty outta line here Mike.

The application reads like this:

Pursuant to NAMBA rules, any member applying for a NAMBA record will notify the CD immediately following the boat’s
record breaking run. The CD or his designee will ensure that the boat has been technically inspected and complies with NAMBA
rules for the particular class in which the record is being submitted.
We hereby certify that the required inspection was performed on the above referenced boat and that it meets the specification for the
class indicated.
SIGNATURE OF PERSON PERFORMING THE INSPECTION: __________________________________________________ __
We further certify that this record was set on a course which meets all of the guidelines for a legal record course as specified in the
NAMBA rulebook, and that if the record is for 1/16 mile straightaway, that the timing was done with infrared equipment.
CD SIGNATURE: ________________________________________ NAMBA #: ___________ CLUB: _______________________
OFFICIAL
SIGNATURE 1: ________________________________________ NAMBA #: ___________ CLUB: _______________________
OFFICIAL
SIGNATURE 2: ________________________________________ NAMBA #: ___________ CLUB: _______________________
(No two of the official signatures can be members of the same club.)

Your suggesting that the person inspecting wouldn't check the voltage and would put his signature on the form where he's supposed to have verified compliance. In effect cheating for the applicant. Then the CD has to witness the cheeting with his signature. Forfeiting his inegrity hence forth. Then two signature from two people that don't run in the same club, they have to wintness and put their names on the forms and implicate themselves as cheaters too.

Holy crap. That's a lot of conspiring to cheat. You sure you want to make that accussation?

[don ferrette]

Mike, your tag line reveals your real opinion here and hints at your motivation... I'm not sure how else we're suppose to take that as it was obviously meant to offend....

I'm not going to say one way or another if the times were legit as I wasn't there. HOWEVER your first reply about the intergity of the event seems rather hypocritical cosidering that when Aaron Alberico came over from Australia and ran a one way of 139 through IMPBA CERTIFIED timing equipment in NC (burnt down his Picco 45 doing it and could not back it up), the pass was openly questioned by some of those in the same group you seek to defend.

TOY BOATS

One day I hope to be able to make the trip out to Legg and run SAWs as I hear it's a nice site and I've never been to the west coast. Maybe you guys could make the trip east and lay down those kind of numbers again, that would silence any doubters wouldn't it?

[T.S.Davis]

"may" as in "could use a meter". Not "may" or "maybe not". You reading too much into that. For a record an inspector is responsible for verifying compliance.

IMPBA's rules are pathetic too. They haven't been updated since.......... who knows when?

[Darin Jordan]

Maybe you guys could make the trip east and lay down those kind of numbers again, that would silence any doubters wouldn't it?

Bill Oxidean was just out there, running the same numbers... Brian has NEVER failed to run fast numbers, regardless of whether IMPBA or NAMBA... He's been "out there" with you guys and backed up his stuff...

This is silly... Motors were torn down (gas and FE), voltages were checked... measurements were taken... forms were signed.

You guys do NOT have the market on integrity and honest competition... Again... Brian set the P-Limited Offshore record, and then handed his prop to Tony, who promptly experienced the additional 10% improvement in performance and set himself up to beat that same record... No motors or batteries involved.

You guys are hunting in the wrong places!