Namba SAW Events

[don ferrette]

IMPBA's rules are pathetic too. They haven't been updated since.......... who knows when?

Actually there have been a whole bunch of updates, the on-line rulebook is what hasn't been but will be soon. A bunch of corrupted files has given fits to the guys working on it but they are VERY close to being finished...... finally

[T.S.Davis]

Since we're getting hung up on semantics. Where does it say voltage "will" be checked with a meter in the IMPBA rule book? It must be there since Mike is jamming it down our throats. I have to have just missed it. Couldn't find it on the form so it must be in the book. Section and verse will be fine.

Ridiculous.

[don ferrette]

Bill Oxidean was just out there, running the same numbers... Brian has NEVER failed to run fast numbers, regardless of whether IMPBA or NAMBA... He's been "out there" with you guys and backed up his stuff...

This is silly... Motors were torn down (gas and FE), voltages were checked... measurements were taken... forms were signed.

You guys do NOT have the market on integrity and honest competition... Again... Brian set the P-Limited Offshore record, and then handed his prop to Tony, who promptly experienced the additional 10% improvement in performance and set himself up to beat that same record... No motors or batteries involved.

You guys are hunting in the wrong places!

I'm not hunting for anything Darin, but if you want to read something into my post that's not there then lump me to your continued defensive posturing over this event then so be it, I'll keep that in mind from here on in.

Have a nice day ...... seriously

[T.S.Davis]

Actually there have been a whole bunch of updates, the on-line rulebook is what hasn't been but will be soon. A bunch of corrupted files has given fits to the guys working on it but they are VERY close to being finished...... finally

When you join do you get the current rule book or do you get the 2005 version that's on the website? We've been hearing about the files for years now. If they have the bits and pieces, anybody should be able to throw it in an Adobe writer and fix it. Knock some heads around for us Don.

This is all silly. I doubt either SAW site is fudging the numbers. For what really? The glory? It's toy boats. The guys that are participating in and hositing a SAW event are SO into it that they would never let someone bring the integrity of their event into question. Voltages get checked, rules are verified, records are set. Move on.

[Darin Jordan]

...then lump me to your continued defensive posturing over this event then so be it, I'll keep that in mind from here on in.

Have a nice day ...... seriously

Don... I'm not at all "defensive"... I'm pissed! These types of accusations are a bunch of horse-*!***!***!***!**. There is absolutely nothing here to indicate that a set of NAMBA times would be any less legit than a set of IMPBA times, yet these guys choose to levy these kinds of accusations?? Ridiculous!

No, don't mistake me calling this crap out for being defensive... I'm just trying to highlight the absurdity of this line of questioning...

As for questioning some Australian's attempts... I don't have any idea who or what you are talking about... But I can assure you that I haven't question any of the times/speeds coming from the IMPBA SAWs... even when Bill suddenly found a BUNCH of speed in N1... As I posted before (and deleted)... I simply thought to myself "Damn... I have some more work to do!"...

[Darin Jordan]

This is all silly. I doubt either SAW site is fudging the numbers. For what really? The glory? It's toy boats. The guys that are participating in and hositing a SAW event are SO into it that they would never let someone bring the integrity of their event into question. Voltages get checked, rules are verified, records are set. Move on.

AMEN, Terry! Spot on!

[bbill1]

Darin

I don't know what you 'read' into my original post. The questions were to be taken at face value. Therefore I don't see the prejudice for witch you are approaching it. I have communicated with you several times on this forum via thread and pm and have had nothing but good conversation with you. Perhaps you don't feel the same.

I had questions and was looking for answers. I spoke with Brian last night regarding this and most of the subject matter involved what it would take to hold a Namba sanctioned TT here in Florida. He didn't seem defensive, angered, or offended in any way whatsoever regarding this thread. I trust he felt the same at the end of our conversation.

I saw nothing but on-topic replies for the first to posts. Mike portrayed a hypothetical concern that he saw regarding voltage and was looking for clarification. then you replied and it all went to poop. Perhaps your first reply (that you have now deleted) was what started the entire mud slinging.

Something to ponder...

/B

[Darin Jordan]

Darin

I don't know what you 'read' into my original post. The questions were to be taken at face value. Therefore I don't see the prejudice for witch you are approaching it. I have communicated with you several times on this forum via thread and pm and have had nothing but good conversation with you. Perhaps you don't feel the same.

I had questions and was looking for answers. I spoke with Brian last night regarding this and most of the subject matter involved what it would take to hold a Namba sanctioned TT here in Florida. He didn't seem defensive, angered, or offended in any way whatsoever regarding this thread. I trust he felt the same at the end of our conversation.

I saw nothing but on-topic replies for the first to posts. Mike portrayed a hypothetical concern that he saw regarding voltage and was looking for clarification. then you replied and it all went to poop. Perhaps your first reply (that you have now deleted) was what started the entire mud slinging.

Something to ponder...

/B

Bill... don't lay this on me... Mike has edited his original post, but he made very clear reference to how he'll be staying away from NAMBA events, obviously due to his perception of our "teching" procedures... I take great offense to that, as someone who ALWAYS plays with legal equipment and tries very hard to maintain a high level of integrity.

Maybe I have read into this too much, but I don't really think so. It's clear that our tech'ing and our performances are being questioned, apparently, according to Mike, by "more than just those here"... I'm not sure how else to take that, especially when combined with Mike's tag line in his signature...

Either way, I hope you guys got your answers and DO hold a NAMBA TT there in Florida... I'm sure it will be well attended and should produce some great performances...

I have talked with both you and Mike on the phone previously, and would think you both to know me as genuine and honest, and I take you both to be the same. Feel free to contact me any time.

[Darin Jordan]

By the way... I'll be building up my Lynx, and my Warhead II over this winter... You may have to correct your signature when I'm done... (JUST KIDDING AROUND!! Please don't take offense!! :D )

[bbill1]

Mike has edited his original post, but he made very clear reference to how he'll be staying away from NAMBA events, obviously due to his perception of our "teching" procedures...

If he did that, it was prior to my reading it.

/B

[bbill1]

By the way... I'll be building up my Lynx, and my Warhead II over this winter... You may have to correct your signature when I'm done... (JUST KIDDING AROUND!! Please don't take offense!! :D )

By all means, bring it. Competition is what we all live for.

/B

[Darin Jordan]

By all means, bring it. Competition is what we all live for.

/B

If he did that, it was prior to my reading it.

It's not big deal... The work-day is about over and I'm frankly over all of it. Hopefully we can all just move on.

I'm sure that our FE Director is already working hard on some procedures and processes to make this all more clear.

I personally wouldn't have made the P-Limited classes eligible for records, but that's another discussion. It does open the door for more people to be involved in time-trials, so that is a good thing.

Go SAW and enjoy!

[JIM MARCUM]

Here is what the "current" NAMBA rule book states about this subject:
Section Name ELECTRIC
Section # 28
Page # 1 of 20
North American Model
Boat Association
Official Rule Book Revised 12/16/09
A. GENERAL RULES
1. Electric racing rules are intended as a supplement to the general racing rules of
NAMBA. In the case of a conflict, the Electric racing rules will prevail.
2. A positive method of speed control must be used. On/Off micro or variable speed
controls are allowed.
3. The following battery chemistries will be considered official for electric racing in
NAMBA:
a) Ni-chemistry: maximum of Sub-C sized cells with nominal 1.2 volt per cell.
b) Li-polymer chemistry: nominal 3.7 volts per cell.
c) Li-ion chemistry: nominal 3.3 volts per cell.
Racers wishing to run alternative chemistries to those listed will be required to
provide data to the contest official to verify the chemistry’s volts per cell and any
special safety requirements. Allowing alternative chemistries will be at the
discretion of the Contest Directory based on the data provided.
For the purposes of determining maximum allowances, a “pack” will be
considered any number of cells in series whose min/max nominal voltage falls
within the allowed nominal voltage range for the designated class.

What is key here is the word NOMINAL voltage. All current LIPO cells have a NOMINAL voltage of 3.7 volts. As we all know, a fully charged LIPO pack has a far higher voltage. I.E.: My 14.8 volt NOMINAL batts run well over 16 volts. In any case, to check a battery pack with a volt meter AFTER a record run would be futile. ANY battery will have a lower voltage AFTER the boat is run, therefore meaningless in establishing voltage levels on record runs. NOMINAL means NOMINAL!!! And NOMINAL is the ONLY fair way to deternine LIPO voltage compliance. I raced 10th scale off-road trucks & buggies for years. It was ALWAYS has been a big part of the race game getting NICAD batteries pushed to their max voltage & discharge capacity. Voltage ratings for all batteries have ALWAYS been based on NOMINAL voltage, NOT whatever voltage a skilled racer can push their battery to. Using NOMINAL voltage is the ONLY way to assure we all compete on an even playing field. JIM MARCUM

[raptor347]

Maybe you guys could make the trip east and lay down those kind of numbers again, that would silence any doubters wouldn't it?

Already did it in 2006, Valdosta. I still hold the P-Sport Hydro record and the O-2 Sport Hydro record before the class was retired. Both of those records were faster than the NAMBA records by about 4 mph. Same boat and power, that can't be right. So what was wrong at the 2006 Valdosta event to allow me to pick up 4 mph out of nowhere?

Was the course short? Probably not, I trust the CD (Glenn Quarles in 2006) to have the course setup accurately.
Was the timing equipment off? Probably not, see above.
Did I slip an extra cell in the boat? No, Chris Harris and Glenn Quarles teched the boat and signed the forms.

Of course you weren't there so you must have doubts. I guess it all comes down to whether we trust the guys putting on the event to get it right.

I forgot one last possibility. Did I learn something in the 5 months between the two events? Maybe.


I'd like to come back for another event, just a question of time and money.


Had a nice talk with Bill about tunnel setup last night. Gave him the setup info off my P-tunnel. Can't wait to see where he goes with it. I'm guessing that's going to be a VERY fast Lynx in pretty short order.

If anyone wants to talk setups, send me a PM.

On another note, I just looked at some of the data logs from the spec boats. Did you guys know you can push about 1750 watts through a UL-1 motor for back to back passes. YMMV.

[don ferrette]

Already did it in 2006, Valdosta. I still hold the P-Sport Hydro record and the O-2 Sport Hydro record before the class was retired. Both of those records were faster than the NAMBA records by about 4 mph. Same boat and power, that can't be right. So what was wrong at the 2006 Valdosta event to allow me to pick up 4 mph out of nowhere?

Was the course short? Probably not, I trust the CD (Glenn Quarles in 2006) to have the course setup accurately.
Was the timing equipment off? Probably not, see above.
Did I slip an extra cell in the boat? No, Chris Harris and Glenn Quarles teched the boat and signed the forms.

Of course you weren't there so you must have doubts. I guess it all comes down to whether we trust the guys putting on the event to get it right.

I forgot one last possibility. Did I learn something in the 5 months between the two events? Maybe.


I'd like to come back for another event, just a question of time and money.


Had a nice talk with Bill about tunnel setup last night. Gave him the setup info off my P-tunnel. Can't wait to see where he goes with it. I'm guessing that's going to be a VERY fast Lynx in pretty short order.

If anyone wants to talk setups, send me a PM.

On another note, I just looked at some of the data logs from the spec boats. Did you guys know you can push about 1750 watts through a UL-1 motor for back to back passes. YMMV.

Now Brian please don't read something into it that's not there. I thought my words were rather clear -
Maybe you guys could make the trip east and lay down those kind of numbers again, that would silence any doubters wouldn't it?
Tell where I said to silence "my" doubts? No biggie I'll do it for you bro- I didn't, just laid out the ultimate way to silence critics. And also in my first post on the subject I thought it just as clear-
I'm not going to say one way or another if the times were legit as I wasn't there.
I wasn't there so I'm not defending either "side" in this, plain and simple. The only point I was trying to make with Darin was that he was getting postal defending the same group of who a couple had openly questioned Aaron's ballistic one way pass (names are irrelevant as they know who they are). The only difference was when I heard about it I laughed it off as I was there and also saw the toasted Picco 45 motor afterwards (and yes it was hurt bad). And like I mentioned earlier I'd really like to run an event @ Legg but likewise for me it's a time and money thing but maybe one day it might happen. And if you do get the chance to come to the east coast I'd like to extend an invitation to you and anyone else out there to try our site in North Carolina, pretty darn nice site if I may say so.

TOY BOATS FOLKS!