Looking for a Firefox Canard Owner

[questtek]

Who makes the white one you have?

Bought two of them on e-Bay about 5 years ago. Mid-west guy was building them but is no longer doing it. They were pretty heavy.....but bulletproof.

[Fluid]

Ben I've played with several canards over the years. I'm not an expert but what do you want to know?




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[Meniscus]

Jay, you may be the one person who can answer a few questions I have. How much lift in ounces does the wing have that connects the tub to the sponsons at a given speed? I know that it will be approximate, but I'm trying to determine these baseline specs.

The other question is related to COG and this lift created by the hull itself at a given speed. As you know, with the higher power systems and almost half the weight for larger models, we tend to push the COG back on the riggers, especially in SAWS trim. How does this apply to the canard?

Have you ever run an extended bracket to push the strut further back from the transom? What if any effects has this had on ride attitude and does it affect COG?

I appreciate everyone's time addressing these questions. Unfortunately, the hobby has lost several of the folks who are truly experts in the canard world. In the meantime, all help is advantageous. I still can't figure out who did the development on the H&M canards. Perhaps I'll drop Joerg or Siess a line. Someone has to know.

[Fluid]

Sorry Ben, I didn't see your questions until tonight. A canard is a cross between a tunnel and a hydro. The original idea (for full-scale race boats anyway) was that by keeping the center of lift behind the CG the boat would not blow over. Of course Ken Dryden knows better....

The lift is shared by the sponsons and the wing, but I usually erred towards sponson lift as the major factor. Both have to run at an aoa to achieve this. The CG is usually in the front 25% of the rear sponsons, but that will depend on the boat.

Running down the straights the front sponson is carried just above the water and the boat runs like a tunnel. As soon as the rudder is turned the front sponsons drops onto the water and the boat carves a tight turn as the front sponson digs in.

Due to success with them on catamarans, I ran long strut brackets on my canards too. This made it easier to tune the running attitude with prop depth. CG is affected mostly by the placement of the center of lift on these boats.

I watched the JAGs team run a canard at the 2001 SAWs in LA. It handled terribly, as I recall there was insufficient rudder in the water at speed, and as soon as the boat got fully on step it would spin out pivoting on the front sponson. At least that's how I remember it. The next year they abandoned canards and concentrated on riggers. The rest is history.

Here is how a canard should run down the straights:



Here is the JAGs canard from 2001:



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[Meniscus]

Thanks Jay, no problem on the delay. Confirms a lot of conjecture based on extensive reading on my part. Now, I must have some 100 pictures of canards on and off the water, but never seen the JAGs.

What other pictures do you have of canards? What different designs have you seen related to the front sponson?