Schulze ESC Wiring + Wire Length Question

[ManuelW]

Hi Domp,

principally its good to keep the wires as short as possible. But I have a bit to disagree with the statement of RaceMechaniX, the wires between ESC and motor are not that critical and can be longer, most important are the wires between batterys and ESC's. When you have long wires between ESC and motor you may try to pleach the wires, this recudes back-EMF. For wires between lipo and ESC, the better the lipo and the shorter/the thicker the wires is, the less problems you'll gave. Generally I'd say with normal Lipos a length around 6-7" with 8AWG wire is not critical. If you add Caps, I'd recommend to have them updated at Schulze or use the CAP9 from YGE and mount them as close to the ESC as possible!

Best regards,
Manuel

[Fluid]

Rather than do what someone suggests on an un-vetted Internet site, it is usually better to do what the manufacturer recommends. Schulze is a premier ESC maker, and their 40-160 has been the gold standard among ESCs for years. They understand what works and what is best for their controllers. Here is what they say for the older version 40-160WK:

Ensuring safe, trouble-free operation
All high-current cables must be as short as possible. Maximum length between flight pack and speed controller should never exceed
20 cm (7"), between speed controller and motor: 10 cm (4").

Important Tips
In some installations it will be necessary to increase the length of the battery cables. In this case it is necessary to install additional low-ESR decoupling capacitors. The installation of these additional capacitors allows the increase to a total length of battery cables to as much as 30-50 cm (12-20 inches), depending on the motor load...

The following instructions describe installing additional capacitors yourself without sending the ESC back to Germany.

http://www.schulze-elektronik-gmbh.de/index_uk.htm

BTW, pleaching the wires only reduces RF interference. It does nothing for back EMF readings but it allows Schulze to meet the CE standards for radio interference. Here is what Schulze says:

All high-current cables longer than 5 cm (2") must be twisted together. This applies in particular to the motor power cables, which are very powerful sources of radiated interference.

Of course it is your controller and you are free to do whatever you want.....


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[domp444]

Thanks for all the info guys!

I think I will try to keep the ESC to battery wires under 7". If I need the wires to be longer then I will do what the Schulze site says. ESC to motor length shouldn't be a problem though, as the ESC will be close to the motor, with the total wire length 5".

Fluid, I looked on the Schulze site, but I am a bit confused as to how I would install the extra caps. The wires on the 40.160 are far apart, and there are 4 of them in total. The instructions on the Schulze site only shows instructions for the smaller ESC's. Do you have any pictures of how they are installed? Maybe someone on here has done it?

Oh and how do you pleach/twist the motor/esc wires? I don't think I'm sure of what is meant by that.

[ManuelW]

@ Fluid: Schulze also says the use of their chargers is not allowed with 12V power supplys except their own labeled ones for a very high price.

The old Schulze controllers are probably some of the best ESC's ever built and the Service at Schulze is good. At the moment I have only two of the old 40.160's but some of my friends at the PBS Passau have a "little bit" more than that and we use them with sucess in many boats for several years now. Therefore I think I wouldn't give a recommendation concerning wire length if I'm not sure about. And nearly any bigger ESC manufacturer here told me, that the wiring between motor and ESC is not that important but then twisted wires make sense.
Picture:

http://www.jan-grosser.de/images/stories/bastelein/nas/kabelzopf.jpg

And before trying to solder your own CAP's to te controller, I'd go for the YGE CAP 9 with 9x330µF 63V: http://www.yge.de/artikel.php?search=ygecaps9

I use two smaller YGE CAP 7 on my YGE 160 HV controllers and the are well made and the price is fair I think.

Best regards,
Manuel

[domp444]

How can I order two of the YGE CAP 9's? I am in the US, and so far I've had no luck finding a dealer here that has them. It seems like the best solution.

[Fluid]

...but some of my friends at the PBS Passau have a "little bit" more than that and we use them with sucess in many boats for several years now.

I'm not getting into a pi$$ing match with you Manuel. In my considerable experience, newbies are best served by following the advice of the manufacturers. Then when there is a problem - as there often is - the manufacturers will not blame the user for the failure and the newbie will not be worried they caused the failure.

I'm sure your friends are highly experienced 'rocket scientists' and they have never burned up an ESC.

Guess I'm off to add another name to the ignore list...




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[m4a1usr]

How can I order two of the YGE CAP 9's? I am in the US, and so far I've had no luck finding a dealer here that has them. It seems like the best solution.

Dont worry about getting the YGE cap bank. You can use this one with equal success. Plus your getting it from Steve. http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...i-e041&cat=136

John

[Doug Smock]

Wow.

[domp444]

Dont worry about getting the YGE cap bank. You can use this one with equal success. Plus your getting it from Steve. http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...i-e041&cat=136

John

Will that one be wide enough for the 40.160's? I believe I have to install them as close to the esc as possible, right? I'd be happy getting it from Steve if it'll work.

[m4a1usr]

Will that one be wide enough for the 40.160's? I believe I have to install them as close to the esc as possible, right? I'd be happy getting it from Steve if it'll work.

The ETTI board layout is designed like most of them. But even designed as is you can do any mod you want to it to apply to your needs. The cap board should be mounted as close as possible to the speedo as you can locate it. But thats not a physical requirement. That is an electrical requirement. So in other words you could attach a couple 18ga leads, soldered to the appropriate polarity (color coded) wires and then have the cap bank a slight distance away. Its not a problem to attach a couple wires 2 to 4 inches long to the cap bank, then solder those as close to the speedo as possible. You dont need wires any bigger then 18ga. Its about potential, not amperage. Dont let anyone talk you into bigger wires.

John

[ManuelW]

Hello Guys,

okay now I think I may have to write a little bit longer post. First thing is, I may only be 23 but I try to give such highly important recommendations like wire length of an old 40.160ESC only if I'm really sure about that, especially if my recommendation may be a bit in conflict with the manual of the ESC.

I already got the information concerning the wire length topic from Heino Jung (YGE) as well as from Micha (Modellbau-Regler) so I was sure it will be the same issue for Schulze. As I don't want to tell bull**it I contacted Schulze themselves for a qualified answer. Thats why it took some time for my reply here. Today came the answer and it was even more surprising than I thought: Schulze themselve stated they see a wire length between ESC and motor with less than 100cm or 40" (!!!!) as uncritical - it may only have influence on the range of 35Mhz or 40Mhz transmitters. The minimum capacity of the caps depends on the wire length between ESC and battery

So to sum up:
Wire length between ESC and motor is much less critical than wire length between ESC and battery. This means I wouldn't be scared to have longer wires between motors and ESC to keep the wires between battery and ESC as short as possible. But even with that statement of Schulze, I would keep the wires between ESC and battery even with additional caps under 10" and between ESC and motor the same.

@ Fluid's post: We are no rocket scientists and I've already seen enough Schulze 40.160 ESC's of the old series burning. Tried to sent him a PM as well but he has got me on his Ignore List- maybe anybody else could be nice and forward him some information.

@domp: I think the YGE Cap9 is WAY better than the ETTI module. If you think its too much work to order them from here, if you are not frightened of the price it would be no problem for me to order two from Heino and ship them to you. So if you want to, give me information about it.

Best regards,
Manuel

PS: Sorry for making some troubles as the "new guy" !

[domp444]

Thanks Manuel! That is some very good info. I never thought the wire length between motor and esc could be 40", haha. My lipos should be arriving this week or the next, and when they do I will test out to see what I need to do about wire length.

If you could order me the CAP 9's it would be great. I will check first to see if I need them and then I'll let you know! Thanks again for getting all the info from Schulze, YGE, and Micha.