IMPBA’s new P-limited “spec” class rule proposal.

[ray schrauwen]

Oh Bill, Bill Bill...

In my LSO & LSH I run a $30 chinese esc that is plug and play. Works for me and I keep a spare in case.

How much cheaper can you get?? LOL....

The motor is already spec'd, what are you people missing here?

For an esc to make ANY difference, cost or design wise you would have to have the most perfect boat setup and be in 1st or second to make it useful.

This is wasteful banter, really.

[bbill1]

What you're describing bill is the RTR class. This isn't about speed or going faster.

Exactly!

[T.S.Davis]

Bill, we already have P hydro, P mono, P sport, and P offshore to go wild in. The only real difference between those classes and the limited class are the motors. In NAMBA that is.

It's worked quite well so far.

The only real difference between what's been suggested for IMPBA and what NAMBA has already been doing for years is the ESC. The limited spec classes have had much more interest than the P classes even without specifying the esc.

Since the point seems to get lost on so many I think once the water thaws I'm going to try running a UL motor on a Proboat ESC and fiddle with the timing. I'll need to find the right prop combo. I'll probably bake a couple UL motors but it wont be during a race so it doesn't count. How's that very specific list of ESC's helping exactly? Tweakers will tweak. Racers are tweakers.....because they race.

I'm guessing but I suspect my time would be better spent coming up with a better turn fin. My boat tends to dig a little coming out of the turns. Too much hook I think.

It's a limited class. Not a stock class.

[Darin Jordan]

No... Only if you want to go faster.

Seems to me the problem is with the implementation of the rules.

They were not PROPERLY in place BEFORE people started popping for 120amp ecs's. now that there is a push to standardize the rules, Only those who would need to now go out and buy a legal esc are the one's balking. ( And wouldn't actually call 89.00 for a 60 amp esc a "mint".)

Your making it harder than it needs to be.

Bill... you may not know the history of the class, so you really can't make the statement that "we're" making it harder than it needs to be...

I, with some in our local club, WROTE the original rules that a majority of the country adopted (same with the Spec SV27 rules). The individual clubs changed them from there to suit their locals.

The original rules specified the stock ESCs. I, and several around me were fine with that. Many others weren't.

As for putting the rules in place, the IMPBA REQUIRES that a set of rules be run for a season at least, before they can be "put in place". NAMBA district directors usually require some kind of history before they'll allow anything to go forward as well.

It's DURING that time that things have been altered from the original rule draft. They've evolved in some areas to the point we are at now, and NOW "some" want to put the geanie back into the bottle.

The fact is that anyone... ANYONE, who has already invested money into this class, KNEW from the start that this WAS NOT a "LEGAL" NAMBA, or IMPBA class. They took that risk of knowing that, once a set of rules were actually decided on, some of their equipment may have to be changed to conform.

As I've said before, I can race the class either way. Any of us can. Even you Nitro guys can. Need to know what to run (in the event of more open ESC rules), just ASK. We'll tell you. There really are NOT that many alternatives. Picking an ESC is really pretty trivial. And, frankly, most of us who have used alternate ESCs, aren't doing so because we want, or need, to go "faster"... it's usually for other reasons.

ProBoat ESCs are bulky and heavy, and fitting them into an OPC can be a challenge. Also, some aftermarket ESCs have data logging, etc. There are a LOT of reasons to choose one ESC over another that have NOTHING to do with "going faster".

It's all really simple to me. But someone has to decide on WHAT the rules are going to be, so until that happens, I'm sure this debate will continue.

[T.S.Davis]

They were not PROPERLY in place BEFORE people started popping for 120amp ecs's.

We played with it for 4 years before we put it on paper so that we knew what worked. I run the UL speedo everywhere I can because the UL motor and speedo are buddies. They work better together than a UL and a Castle. At least in my boats.

Nobody has suggested a RTR class that I'm aware of. That's an entirely different animal. Props, turn fins, battery locations, bottom work all come into question.

[bbill1]

Oh Bill, Bill Bill...

In my LSO & LSH I run a $30 chinese esc that is plug and play. Works for me and I keep a spare in case.

How much cheaper can you get?? LOL....

The motor is already spec'd, what are you people missing here?

For an esc to make ANY difference, cost or design wise you would have to have the most perfect boat setup and be in 1st or second to make it useful.

This is wasteful banter, really.

Ya know, You guys make it so confusing that I don't know exactly what to say.

I really was kind of excited to put a p-spec TUNNEL (not RTR) together and race it. Seems like something that would really appeal to me.

I have spent a week reading threads trying to find out what I needed to be legal.

The upcoming WTC rules state I need a Aquacraft Or Proboat setup to be legal.

Namba states I can run anything as far as esc's go.

Impba will let me run anything as far as esc's go, but that may change with this proposal.

What I'm trying to tell you is you are killing ANY enthusiasm that I or any newcomer may have.

Maybe I'll just save my money and build another nitro boat instead.

[bbill1]

Bill... you may not know the history of the class, so you really can't make the statement that "we're" making it harder than it needs to be...

I, with some in our local club, WROTE the original rules that a majority of the country adopted (same with the Spec SV27 rules). The individual clubs changed them from there to suit their locals.

The original rules specified the stock ESCs. I, and several around me were fine with that. Many others weren't.

As for putting the rules in place, the IMPBA REQUIRES that a set of rules be run for a season at least, before they can be "put in place". NAMBA district directors usually require some kind of history before they'll allow anything to go forward as well.

It's DURING that time that things have been altered from the original rule draft. They've evolved in some areas to the point we are at now, and NOW "some" want to put the geanie back into the bottle.

The fact is that anyone... ANYONE, who has already invested money into this class, KNEW from the start that this WAS NOT a "LEGAL" NAMBA, or IMPBA class. They took that risk of knowing that, once a set of rules were actually decided on, some of their equipment may have to be changed to conform.

As I've said before, I can race the class either way. Any of us can. Even you Nitro guys can. Need to know what to run (in the event of more open ESC rules), just ASK. We'll tell you. There really are NOT that many alternatives. Picking an ESC is really pretty trivial. And, frankly, most of us who have used alternate ESCs, aren't doing so because we want, or need, to go "faster"... it's usually for other reasons.

ProBoat ESCs are bulky and heavy, and fitting them into an OPC can be a challenge. Also, some aftermarket ESCs have data logging, etc. There are a LOT of reasons to choose one ESC over another that have NOTHING to do with "going faster".

It's all really simple to me. But someone has to decide on WHAT the rules are going to be, so until that happens, I'm sure this debate will continue.

And that's why you and I are actually on the same side of it.

[Darin Jordan]

And that's why you and I are actually on the same side of it.

Check your PMs...

[Diegoboy]

Bill, I understand the confusion. I have been running sport FE's for years, but I am new to the rules of racing, and it does give me a headache.
Let me say that if you build another nitro boat, you may not be able to give it away in a few years, so hang in there!

[LuckyDuc]

Beginners class?

Do we in IMPBA really want to label the current P-limited classes as “Beginner classes”? If so, we risk losing a lot of the appeal it currently enjoys. It is not viewed by the current racers as a beginners class.

A beginners class would be a RTR/Production class. I DON’T like that nomenclature so I think a better name for the class would be something like P-SPEC SPORT HYDRO, or P-Spec sport tunnel… Meaning manufacturer’s specs. Naming a class “RTR/Production” insinuates cheapness, mass production, and toy like characteristics. None of which are true for either Aquacraft or Proboat’s offerings. If it is one of our goals in IMPBA to create and push a FE beginners class, then this is the class that we should work towards.

[Doug Smock]

Beginner classes.
Are these classes for the guys that are new to boats? Not so much, these guys need driving experience among other things.
On the other hand. You take a new to boat guy that has car, truck racing experience and he'll do well right off the bat. There is at least one example on this forum.

Are these classes "beginner" classes for the IC guys that want to give FE a shot? They certainly are!!!
With a little guidance learning the FE ropes( the same guidence I got when I started racing gas) , these guys will show you the way around the race course. Ask me how I know LOL
Just my .02 FWIW
Good luck at the races Mr. Peterson!!
Have a great day fellas.
D.

[Diegoboy]

Novice class: No riggers, any power plant you want to use.
RTR class: Any unmodified "out of box" boat
P-limited: Beginner class? RTR power on any hull of the type?

[T.S.Davis]

That's a lot of blunt edge low tech classes by my count.

RTR Mono
RTR Cat
RTR Sport
RTR Tunnel
RTR Offshore
Limited mono
Limited Cat
Limited Sport
Limited Hydro
Limited Tunnel
Limited Offshore
Novice

That's 12 classes with restrictions. Or did you mean to run all the RTR boats together?

I think NAMBA will have limited cracker now too. Then 10th scale is a limited class. Vintage and classic. Ugh.....it's no wonder we have trouble feilding heats. Too many choices.

[Flying Scotsman]

Well in the words of Ed Murrow to all particpants in this thread " Good Night and Good Luck "

Douggie

[Grimracer]

I have been sitting back in my lazy boy with a bag of popcorn watching this go on and on.

Seems to me that a few have forgotten what this is supposed to be all about.

I am a nitro tunnel vet who has decided to jump into FE. Of course my first thought is to get started in the P-spec class since I am a newcomer and want to see if I like it before I really dig in.

My two cents is this:

P-Spec should be for those who are new to the FE side of things and want to race without spending a mint. You want to start going faster or get better ecs's and motors? Create the P mod class. This is equivalent to our B MOD Tunnel class (Namba).

Our B Sport Tunnel class basically has one motor offering, the OS MAX @ $375.00. Talk about propping up a manufacturer, this is it. But we don't have the bickering that you guys have and I think it is because we all realize that the B Sport class is primarily for the beginner tunnel head. Sure the veterans still run the class but we all understand why it is there. Wanna go faster? build a mod boat.

So this is how I see it.

P-Spec should be just that. Aquacraft and Proboat ecs's and motors. Nothing else. I personally don't care if I am supporting only one or two manufacturers. I just wanna race...

Want to go faster, or get bigger esc's and motors? No problem, go for it! But you will run it in the P (mod/open) class instead.

Got my flame suit on.

Bill Britton

Bill no flaming here so read on..

P Spec should be for those that are new to FE? Why.. and how do you know this to be true.. just asking.. Seans P spec.. yes.. NAMBA P spec.. no.. ya got to know or Blo… some body to get the fast hull and parts.. fare?.. na..

Next.. Sport tunnel was NEVER designed or intended to be a beginners class in the IMPBA.. just want to set that straight.. It is and was a bragging class for the pro racers set up by Rod G and Tommy L. (Bob K had his hands in this too). first big run for them was 1997 Internats.. Gary Preusse won.. Sound like a beginners class!..nope.. never was.

Take care dude and hope to race with you again some day

Grim